outdoor kitchen and oven base

[GianniFocaccia]

Re: outdoor kitchen and oven base

Wayne,
Incredible progress you've made with so much detail in such a short time! I'm envious of your skill and you have what will soon be a top-notch oven.
Great job!
John

[stonecutter]

Re: outdoor kitchen and oven base

Btw, your brickwork looks clean..nice job.

[stonecutter]

Re: outdoor kitchen and oven base

Not quite but similar. He built it with stone, and it was coursed, dry laid work. I never asked him how he dried it in, since you didn't say if you wanted me to. I can if you want to know, it's no trouble.

I like Flemish,it's definitely one if my favorite bonds, a V will compliment it nicely. I will suggest that you pitch the cap on the steps a bit to encourage water to run away from the oven. You probably were going to do that, but it's worth a mention if somebody wondered about it.

[Campmaki]

Re: outdoor kitchen and oven base

A few more pictures. The last one I found somewhere online. This is the look I am after. Not a gabled house but steps inward, these will be granite slabs in one piece. Eliminating all the joints in the brick that face upwards. Eventually I will build a segmented roof over the kitchen and oven. Stonecutter is this the type of build your friend did? Know you had mentioned you would ask him how he did his waterproofing. As far as the veneer goes, I have used all my ashlar pattern limestone. Now I will switch to brick. Flemished bond and clean sharp "V" joints, stuck with a sled on the beds. This will make for brickwork that looks like paneling, super straight and clean.

[Campmaki]

Re: outdoor kitchen and oven base

Had a productive weekend working on the oven entry and dome. Posting a few pictures of progress. Laid out entry, cut and shimmed brick with plastic spacers. That took a day. Thank you John from California for your expertise on that part of the build. Started laying first course Friday, racking away from entry. Put in 5 courses and then filled back into arch. Saturday put in 3 more courses. Just 1 course Sunday as other work needed to get done. Hope to finish dome this Saturday and start vent on Sunday. Had a little leftover mortar so I decided to parge the outside of the firebrick, give it a little extra strength not that it needs it. I am using the homebrew mortar and works like a dream. Plus I am adding a tablespoon of liquid sodium silicate. This makes my homebrew just like the heatstop at a fraction of the cost. Before I left to come home I had to take the arch template out, could not wait.

[Campmaki]

Re: outdoor kitchen and oven base

Stonecutter, first let me thank you for your help and thoughts.The vapor/air barrier made by tremco is a excellent product. Being a peel and stick product a person needs another mason to help to install it,as once it sticks to itself you are done. There also is a solvent based primer,sort of like contact cement and tremco urges you to treat all joints/splice with tremco spectrum one caulk which is good to 400 degrees. The only mistakes you can make are improper laps, min. 3 inches and starting at the bottom and working upwards to achieve a shingled result. I fully realize it will require monitoring and some up keep compared to a roofed structure but I feel I can make it weather tight. Just need to make sure I do not have a "melt down" per say. Oh and I did forget that eventually I would like to build a segmented roof structure over the kitchen and oven, so I should be safe after that is done.

[stonecutter]

Re: outdoor kitchen and oven base

Oh yeah...an internet acquaintance of mine, a professional stone mason, built an enclosure the way you are planning. But his is completely made from stone, top to bottom. I'll ask him how he dried it in.

[stonecutter]

Re: outdoor kitchen and oven base

I got it now....Mayan pyramid-ish. Yeah, I would be thinking about issues with the membrane. Consider the felt...two layers would do the trick.

[Campmaki]

Re: outdoor kitchen and oven base

I don't have a good visual about how you are closing off the top part of your structure. You had said that there are stepped back walls capped with granite...so it will have a stairway look to it? If you do that, don't you think that there is a need to flash each step, even if you pitch the cap? I might have the visual wrong...you have a drawing?

As far as temps on the outside of the insulation, I can't help you, it was never a concern....I like roofed enclosures for maximum weather protection. And I prefer to think of them as smaller versions of European communal ovens.....dog house is a pretty disparaging term IMO. Then again, I've said that a lot of ovens look like upside down toilets...so I don't have freeness of speech to say anything.

Stonecutter, That is a good comparision. It will be somewhat like stairs. Now that is where the Vapor barrier comes into play. It will be under the granite slabs, on the vertical backup wall surface{cement board} totally sealing the the oven compartment from weather. Sorry I do not have drawing as it is taking up a lot of space upstairs, in my head.

[stonecutter]

Re: outdoor kitchen and oven base

Stonecutter, called the regional Tremco specialist and asked him what the max temp would be when drool would start. His answer was 158 degrees. I guess I will have to just build the oven, dry it , insulate it and get a accurate temperature reading on the outside of the insulation. Any thoughts on how else I could do a test?

That's probably your best bet. Worse comes to worse you could use two layers of #30 felt if your temp gets over 150*. It flashes at just over 500*

[NCMan]

Re: outdoor kitchen and oven base

Campmaki.....I finally got a chance to look over your pics. Nice looking work. That's some project you have there! I'll check in every once in awhile to follow your progress.

[Campmaki]

Re: outdoor kitchen and oven base

Stonecutter, called the regional Tremco specialist and asked him what the max temp would be when drool would start. His answer was 158 degrees. I guess I will have to just build the oven, dry it , insulate it and get a accurate temperature reading on the outside of the insulation. Any thoughts on how else I could do a test?

[stonecutter]

Re: outdoor kitchen and oven base

Stonecutter, I am going with 2in ceramic under floor and 3 in of blanket over dome. Have been searching for answer but can not find it. It would help more if I loose filled also. But I need to be damn sure that there is not enough heat to cause the dreaded drool. I really believe this is the way to go. Eliminates all moisture issues. There are some beautiful builds on this site but I prefer something that doesn't resemble a dog house.Did I mention on the backside opposite the vent side, I am going with a large double brick arch, just the place to set my Tv for the Packer games. Do you recall any temp reading mentioned by anyone. Looked at Tremcos web site to see at temp drool occurs, but this usually happens when you have it to close to the exterior of the wall. In other words needs to be left back a min. of 1/2 in from face of wall or UV rays will cause drool. My thinking is excessive heat will do the same, BUT HOW MUCH HEAT? thoughts,send em here

I don't have a good visual about how you are closing off the top part of your structure. You had said that there are stepped back walls capped with granite...so it will have a stairway look to it? If you do that, don't you think that there is a need to flash each step, even if you pitch the cap? I might have the visual wrong...you have a drawing?

As far as temps on the outside of the insulation, I can't help you, it was never a concern....I like roofed enclosures for maximum weather protection. And I prefer to think of them as smaller versions of European communal ovens.....dog house is a pretty disparaging term IMO. Then again, I've said that a lot of ovens look like upside down toilets...so I don't have freeness of speech to say anything.

[Campmaki]

Re: outdoor kitchen and oven base

Stonecutter, I am going with 2in ceramic under floor and 3 in of blanket over dome. Have been searching for answer but can not find it. It would help more if I loose filled also. But I need to be damn sure that there is not enough heat to cause the dreaded drool. I really believe this is the way to go. Eliminates all moisture issues. There are some beautiful builds on this site but I prefer something that doesn't resemble a dog house.Did I mention on the backside opposite the vent side, I am going with a large double brick arch, just the place to set my Tv for the Packer games. Do you recall any temp reading mentioned by anyone. Looked at Tremcos web site to see at temp drool occurs, but this usually happens when you have it to close to the exterior of the wall. In other words needs to be left back a min. of 1/2 in from face of wall or UV rays will cause drool. My thinking is excessive heat will do the same, BUT HOW MUCH HEAT? thoughts,send em here

[stonecutter]

Re: outdoor kitchen and oven base

Stonecutter, you are correct with your statement about cavity walls and heated spaces. I believe the worse thing you can do if let water stay in the cavity, heated or not. My build is going to be somewhat different in that it will not have a roof structure per say. I will lay up my side walls out of brick to an elevation which allows me to set a granite slab on it and cap it off, lets say 12 inches wide. Then I plan on starting another brick wall set back from the back edge of the slab. In essence I would be making a stepped brick enclousure with granite slabs to cap them off. The backup walls for the brick will be structural stud cuttoffs,FREE, with cement board covered with air/vapor barrier. Now if the oven is properly insulated with 3 in. of blanket and the backup wall is not touching the insulation, how warm do you think the back side of the cement board will get? The vapor barrier system needs to be a complete envelope , top to bottom so no moisture freezes in the cavity or gets near the ovens insulation or it is all over but the crying. Mostly important is under any horizontal laid masonry, ie, the slabs. These slabs would be caulked around the bottom where they sit on the brick as these are two different materials. Give me thoughts.

Hard to say. What kind of insulation? With what you are doing I would go with ceramic.