Pompeii started in San Jose

[deejayoh]

We have Pizza! I think we made every mistake ever listed on the forum (plus my wife dropping a dough ball on the patio) but each pizza was better then the one before. Much to learn.

I made a batch of dough Friday night and another on Saturday morning. The Friday batch sat in the refrigerator until around noon on Saturday. Neither batch seemed to double in size during the 90 min proof although it did rise. The dough balls rose not vertically and all ran together which created a sticky mess. The recipe was from the FB eBook and everything was measured by weight. Any thoughts I what I did wrong?

We had a similar thing happen to us last night. Confusing because our dough efforts had been going pretty well (mostly using bread flour). Last night we tried a "00" flour from the local gourmet grocery. Learning: the "00" designation only tells you about the fineness of the milling. You also need to look at protein content - which is what gives you the gluten development you need for structure in the dough. The flour we bought was marketed as a pizza flour - but it was "tenero" or soft wheat, which is low protein. For pizza you want "duro" or hard wheat which is high protein. The soft, finely milled flour we used was basically cake flour. Rose like crazy, didn't develop any gluten, and had no structure. Tears like crazy. Bad idea.

In diagnosing our issue - this article was really helpful: http://slice.seriouseats.com/archive...and-dough.html

[Larry P]

Congrats on your first pizza, welcome to a lifetime of heartache and frustration! No kidding. Just four %$@#* ingredients, what could go wrong?

I'm not sure where to find that recipe, but from other posts from James, I'd guess it's 65% hydration recipe with Caputo "00"? That takes some talent and experience to handle well. Possibly "running together/sticky mess" says insufficient gluten development. Also, I think it's not enough time to rise. It's difficult for me to say because I've been doing sourdough with 48-hour room temp rise for years, but when I was using ADY it was usually something like 3-4 days in the fridge.

I'd suggest you start with TXCraig's detailed thread here: http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/ind...2047#msg202047 ...and read the whole thing. His technique becomes modified slightly since that first post, and he also adjusts for ADY/IDY users somewhere later in that thread. Personally, I use higher hydration and more yeast than he does, but it's a great starting point.

[SteveB48]

We have Pizza! I think we made every mistake ever listed on the forum (plus my wife dropping a dough ball on the patio) but each pizza was better then the one before. Much to learn.

I made a batch of dough Friday night and another on Saturday morning. The Friday batch sat in the refrigerator until around noon on Saturday. Neither batch seemed to double in size during the 90 min proof although it did rise. The dough balls rose not vertically and all ran together which created a sticky mess. The recipe was from the FB eBook and everything was measured by weight. Any thoughts I what I did wrong?

[SteveB48]

Nice! I'll check it out.

[Larry P]

Kindling cracker works! It's the epitome of reliability. Zero moving parts. I'll put up a video this weekend if you like.

[SteveB48]

DAP Silicate Cement Black arrived yesterday.

I have 2 layers of insulation on the oven. I'll get the third one and the lathe installed on Saturday. It's amazing how much bigger it looks with 2 layers of insulation.
I'm up to 550º as of last night. I checked the oven this morning at it's at 320º. I don't have an insulated door yet. So far I'm just using the outside metal plate.

I started using the kindling method you described a couple days ago. Much better. Let me know how the Kindling Cracker works. I was looking at that as well.

Maybe Pizza this weekend.

[Larry P]

I overshot my temps every day until the day I decided to hit 900ºF, then I couldn't get it that hot. It's a difficult game, just take it slow.

For kindling, I was using a hatchet and small sledge hammer, but just bought one of these:

http://www.kindlingcracker.com/

It arrived yesterday. I haven't tried it yet.

[SteveB48]

200º just happened to be the temp when I posted. Most of the 8 hours was spent between 300º and 350º. Today I'm between 350º and 370º with brief excursions to 400º.
I need to find a better way (or bigger axe) to make kindling. That almond is hard stuff!

[Larry P]

Not easy to control a fire at 200º. It takes a lot of attention, and it's almost impossible to not overshoot.

I'm smoking salmon today, and debating if I should use the oven or the BGE. If the oven was cooling through the 180º range, I think it would be a no-brainer, but I'd have to heat it up *slightly* right now to get it at the right temp, which I think is probably not possible.

[SteveB48]

Thanks Larry. I have some on order.

The first fire is burning! Ok the first fire went out rather quickly. The second fire is burning. Just over 200 at the top of the dome. I'm going to need some practice with my firing skills. This is different than a locomotive!

[Larry P]

Sorry I was mistaken where I bought this - turns out it was Amazon:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0006MXS4C/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o07_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I think I have a spare tube, if you want it.

[SteveB48]

I have no interest in going cheap,. especially with something that I may not be able to get to after the stucco is on. I've ordered DAP Silicate Cement Black from Granger. I believe is what Larry has and the specs say 2000 degrees. I'm going to start my drying fires on Saturday so I'll bolt down the chimney without sealant and then reinstall it on Monday when this arrives. I plan on having insulation but not stucco at that point.

Steve
DAP Silicate Cement Black

[UtahBeehiver]

You can easily get to those higher temps especially if you start a fire in the vent chamber to start drafting. I used Uni-Extreme, good to 2600 F but it is hard to find and expensive. Some people have used Kawool caulk, runs about 20 bucks a tube good to 2000 F plus. These products you do not find at the big box stores and typically available at refractory suppliers, IE brick, blanket, CF board. You spend hundreds of dollars to get to this point, don't scrimp here.

[SteveB48]

Thanks Larry. Lowes and Home Depot don't seem to carry that in the store at least over here. It looks like that's rated for 2000 degrees. Does it really need that kind of temperature rating? The Permatex Ultra Copper is rated for 700. I can find Permatex RTV Red at OSH. According to Permatex's web site, that's rated for 650.

[Larry P]

I used something called "high heat mortar," black stuff in a caulk tube from Lowe's or Home Depot. Indeed it cured hard as a rock. I was useful to take up gaps between the plate and the brick, but with that and 4 anchors the plate could still flex quite a bit. I wasn't 100% happy with this. When I rendered the dome, I filled above the plate with surface bonding cement and it's solid now. 50mph winds and no visible deflection of the chimney. Between Home Depot, Lowe's, and OSH, your selection will be very limited. You'll find 2-3 high-heat products total.