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Block Stand Question - Pompeii 42"

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  • Yeager
    replied
    So I spoke with some guys at Armil CFS and think I am going to go with Super Isol. Couple questions:

    1) Is Super Isol moisture sensitive also? (i.e. should I elevate). I think I am going to go with 2" thick Super Isol unless someone believes I should use two 2" or two 1.5". I believe it will take 4 of the 24x39" tiles to provide insulation board coverage.

    2) If you want to have a level hearth with the pizza cooking surface, how do you avoid the firebrick from transferring heat to the concrete hearth? Do you need to airgap it, put in a special grout?

    thanks,
    Yeager

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  • RandyJ
    replied
    Hey Yeager how are you. I had a height that I had in mind when I was starting. I don't remember the exact height but I think it it was 42.5 inches. That was the original reason that I did the patio blocks, but it also helps with drainage if it were to get wet. I wrapped mine in a tarp when I was not working on it. That worked out good for me. If you are going to do a enclosure then you want to leave at least 4 " maby a littlebit more. I ended up going with 18 gage studs to help with snow load. The framework was very stout and I am happy I went that route.

    As for the insulation I did not want to do the vermicreete and I did not think that it was that much more money I did not think and it was faster and easier. I don't have a door yet but I normally have temps around 400 F 24 hours later. So I think I am happy with the way it performs.

    Randy

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  • DavidApp
    replied
    I placed some plastic on the hearth slab and folded it up the sides of the FB. Ended up using Vcrete under my vent support as I had run out of FB.

    I cast blocks 3" thick.

    David

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  • DavidApp
    replied
    Hello Yeager

    After much thought and discussion on this site I went with 3" of FB under my floor. I have built a previous oven with no under floor insulation and suffered the consequences.

    I am very happy with the heat retention of my oven. 3" FB under the floor 3 1/2" blanket over the dome.

    You can make your slab overhang the concrete blocks if you need a bit more room on your slab.

    David

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  • Gulf
    replied
    It is very hard for me to say how much under floor insulation is needed, and where the law of diminishing return starts. 2" of board insulation is what is recommended. After that, it is what you can be comfortable with spending. I used 4" of vcrete and 2" of CalSil. Randy, and many others who did not want the trouble of working with the vcrete went with extra board insulation.

    On the moisture barrier, I think that I would still place it directly on the hearth slab to prevent moisture from wicking up. That is just my opinion. It won't be a killer if you leave it out. And, it wont break the bank if you buy a piece of plastic to place there.

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  • Yeager
    replied
    Great idea. So it looks like I would need 2-3 boards for a 42" oven. I noticed Randy's picture had two boards stacked - any idea how much benefit it is to have two levels vs just one?

    So for thickness:

    Pizza Cooking surface - 2.5"
    Forno bravo Insulation board - 2.0" (assuming I just have one level)
    Bricks to provide elevated insulation board - 1" (maybe 1.5"?)
    Concrete Pad - 3.5"

    Total 8.5"

    Is the FB insulation board unique or are there others on the market to consider?
    If the Insulation board is elevated do you think a moisture barrier is still needed? (my gut says no - because moisture would then just trap versus fall down below - but not sure).

    thanks,
    Yeager

    Leave a comment:


  • Gulf
    replied
    Originally posted by Yeager View Post
    Hey All,
    Making good progress on my block stand - filled the every other cores today on the block. Getting ready to form and pour the concrete and insulating pad next. What is the "latest" that everyone believes is the best way to insulate between the (3.5") concrete pad and the firebrick? Is it the vermiculite/perlite mixture or stone that can be purchased?

    Also, since I am going to have a roof build around my dome, should I make it easy for myself and ensure that the surrounding ~4" is concrete so I can mount the steel studs to it?

    thanks,
    Yeager
    I can't speak for what everybody believes. But, imo the best insulation is FB board (ceramic fiber board) or Calcium Silicate (CalSil). But, it really boils down to what you want to spend. The vermicrete or perlcrete is a good cost efficient alternative. I and several others have used a combination of the v/pcrete and the boards.

    Definitely leave the concrete exposed to where you can anchor your plates directly to it. I would place a waterproof barrier between the concrete slab and the insulation to help prevent wicking. And, I like an idea by RandyJ . He placed concrete pavers on top of his concrete hearth that also elevates the insulation. That puts the insulation high and dry if water should get in. You can check that out here.
    Last edited by Gulf; 10-05-2015, 01:01 PM.

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  • Yeager
    replied
    Hey guys - any ideas?

    Leave a comment:


  • Yeager
    replied
    Hey All,
    Making good progress on my block stand - filled the every other cores today on the block. Getting ready to form and pour the concrete and insulating pad next. What is the "latest" that everyone believes is the best way to insulate between the (3.5") concrete pad and the firebrick? Is it the vermiculite/perlite mixture or stone that can be purchased?

    Also, since I am going to have a roof build around my dome, should I make it easy for myself and ensure that the surrounding ~4" is concrete so I can mount the steel studs to it?

    thanks,
    Yeager

    Leave a comment:


  • gastagg
    replied
    Yeager...I'm just finishing up a 33" build in Minneapolis. Congrats on starting! Looking forward to the progress. MrChipster told me early on that while the plans are good, they are somewhat outdated compared to the WFO technology that has emerged through the builds and comments on this forum.

    Leave a comment:


  • Gulf
    replied
    I would check the bag of the product that you are going to use. It will have a recommended maximum thickness. It would probably work just fine, even if it is a little over the max. Just expensive! But, I guess, buying splits for the job would be expensive also.

    Leave a comment:


  • Yeager
    replied
    I found some brick splits (about 1/2") this weekend at a brickyard. I explained my situation to the city desk guy there and he suggested setting up a frame, mixing up a polymer fortified self leveling, and pouring it down. This actually sounds easier and would appear to make it ready for blocks to set on top of and go - but thought I'd run it by this group! I didn't start anything yet (other than the poured slab!) as I had to get the rest of the project ready for Pavers to be installed this week.

    thanks,
    Yeager

    Leave a comment:


  • Gulf
    replied
    I'm sorry, I should have written brick "flooring" splits. They are usually 1/2" thick. The ceramic tile will work. You are on the right track. I would be surprised if they are as thin as 1/4" though. But, even if they are, a couple of runs of the tile should get up to near level in the lowest spot. I'm figuring 1/2" for the first bed joint, a layer of tile, another 1/2" bed joint and then the second run of tile. Since you will be running out to nothing in places, don't sweat getting the bed joints perfect. 1/2 to 3/4" is ok. I just wouldn't go an inch thick the full length of a block. You can cut the tile the full width of the block or cut them in 2" strips and space them the width of the block. Filling half of your cores with concrete will fill under the rest of the block that is not sitting in a bed of mortar.

    Leave a comment:


  • Yeager
    replied
    For the rear bed joint (and some of the sides) it slopes from 0 to 1.5". I did some google searches on "brick splits" and they appear to be 1 1/4" typically. I would assume these would provide help for 1 1/4" gap to 1 1/2" gap, but what should I do for the 1/2" to 1 1/4" gap? Are we concerned about spaulting with the mortar mix at 1 1/2"? Is that why you suggest getting another material in there? (I would assume we're trying to get some mortar mix above/below the object to help fill in? I have 12x12 ceramic tile, but not sure if I cut them to 7 5/8" width if they are what you'd be recommending? I could place them down and get 1/2 inch mortar and 1/4 inch tile = 3/4 lift. Am I on the right track?

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  • Gulf
    replied
    1 I would get the rear bed joint down to a half inch, if possible. I've used brick splits, slate, ceramic tile, and even asbestos shingles to build up sloping footers. A half inch split laid in a 1/2 inch bed of mortar will get you pretty close.

    2. I see a lot of advice given for the oven floor to be about elbow height to the primary user. Mine is about 4" higher than that. I wouldn't want it any lower.


    3. We've seen a good many H shaped stands for that very reason. It allows access from the front and also from the back without having to crawl inside with the critters. There have also been carts and drawers installed to make this area a little more ergonomic to reach. Another thing to think about is the slope that you mentioned. If water can enter your wood storage in the front, it will pool in the back.

    Leave a comment:

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