OctoForno

[GianniFocaccia]

Re: OctoForno

Nate,
I didn't pay attention to 1/2-bricks and 1/3rd bricks as many builders do in an effort to minimize their brick waste. The two objectives I had when designing my oven was to stagger the bricks symmetrically and to create a hand-crafted brick oven look, whatever that is. In fact, I didn't really even use full half-bricks to start, rather, the lower courses were started slightly more narrow because I wanted to minimize the overhanging 'I' that is created by larger bricks as they overlap. It wasn't until the 4th or 5th course that I discovered I could contour the face of each brick (on both axes) to eliminate the 'I'. Since each successive course requires increasingly narrower bricks to stay 'on bond', there comes a time when individual brick width becomes prohibitively small and you're forced to revert to a larger brick size to maintain the stagger. In the pic below, you can see I did this on the 8th course.

Hope this helps.
John

[SCChris]

Re: OctoForno

Nate, Re brick size;
Ideally you won't have joints that run vertical between courses, or stated another way the bricks of the course you're placing should bridge the joints of the joints of the course these bricks lay on. This will help define your brick size/s. Additionally you'll start to see a "V" appearing under these bricks that creates an overly large mortar joint. When the joint gets unacceptable, this is qualifyable not quantifyable, then you need to adjust your brick size.

Now for the disclamer; Some oven builders on this site have used 1/2 bricks throughout and filled the gaps with mortar, and these ovens are capable of the same high quality pizza and food as are very tight ovens. The build of the oven is a reflection of how you execute the build and this is about so many other things like time and $

Chris

[chidding]

Re: OctoForno

I am the same as John in that I had not considered the fact that insulation changes the curing and drying rates but it definitely makes sense. I will have to remember that when I (finally) get to my build. I am all in favor of the idea of putting the little heater in the oven like Mark (drseward) did in his Colorado oven build thread. With the ability to keep the temperature within 1 degree of where he wanted it for days at a time that seems like a very smart and wise way to cure the oven...slow and low.

John, you might have already stated this but since I have read through your thread a few times now and don't remember seeing it I will just ask my question. How do you figure what angle to cut your firebrick? And at what point do you switch from half bricks (or larger) to the smaller 1/3 brick size? That is one thing I haven't been able to imagine yet but definitely something I want to figure out before the build starts.

Thanks,
Nate

Like everyone who has built a pizza oven, you will know when to make the bricks smaller.. from experience that is.. If you find its starting to get hard to make circles.. then reduce the brick size.

[Pompeii Nate]

Re: OctoForno

I am the same as John in that I had not considered the fact that insulation changes the curing and drying rates but it definitely makes sense. I will have to remember that when I (finally) get to my build. I am all in favor of the idea of putting the little heater in the oven like Mark (drseward) did in his Colorado oven build thread. With the ability to keep the temperature within 1 degree of where he wanted it for days at a time that seems like a very smart and wise way to cure the oven...slow and low.

John, you might have already stated this but since I have read through your thread a few times now and don't remember seeing it I will just ask my question. How do you figure what angle to cut your firebrick? And at what point do you switch from half bricks (or larger) to the smaller 1/3 brick size? That is one thing I haven't been able to imagine yet but definitely something I want to figure out before the build starts.

Thanks,
Nate

[Mike D]

Re: OctoForno

-I can't wait to see how it heats up.
-My dome and vent have been done for a wile, but I have been waiting to finish the outer decorative brick before I start the fires. I had a lamp in there for a couple of days (an old chicken lamp 250 watt) and it did heat up the oven nicely.
- I will be watching closely.

Mike

[GianniFocaccia]

Re: OctoForno

Then again, an idle completed oven is screaming for a fire, it's hard to resist.

Man, is that true!

So I would stretch the days of the early curing temps by 2 or 3 days each making the whole process a week and a half

So it shall be. I feel much better about applying a structured curing approach and having control of (or at least considering the affects of) inherent dome conditions that unless you guys had pointed them out, I would be unaware of.

Thanks again, Dino, for your insight and experience, which is indeed invaluable.

John

[GianniFocaccia]

Re: OctoForno

Chris,

Thanks for the load of great information based on your experience. I have been weighing the timing of insulating the dome not only for uniform curing but also for potential crack repair. I had not considered how the presence of insulation will affect curing temperature rise and drying rates. I think wrapping prior to reaching 250F is a good idea. Once wrapped, if I see a slow temp rise I'll continue to go slow. If I see a fast temp rise I'll know the water has been driven out and will go a little faster. Knowing what a slow vs a fast temp rise looks like is going to be the tricky part.

Thanks again.
John

[Dino_Pizza]

Re: OctoForno

I agree, you'll be shocked at how much higher your temps will jump with insulation. So be careful after you 1st heat up after you insulate.

Re: the warmth and heatwave: I also felt that A) I started the dome rings so long ago and the only mildly moist bricks would be the keystone area, and B) We are so warm and dry in SoCal that I'd be 'safe' in my curing process. I would not assume either of those things anymore. Then again, an idle completed oven is screaming for a fire, it's hard to resist.

Your heat lamp temps are good. I would keep it on for 2 days and then use a fan blowing heater of some sort to add dry air and push the temps up too.

In hind site, trying to remember what I felt was an issue at the time, I should have taken some hours off from work to 'baby sit' my early fires to hold them in the 250 range for a few hours and to make sure I had those temperatures all around the dome base. That's why I recommend a fan-heater left on overnight. I can distinctly hear in my mind when the twigs flared up to 500 deg and I heard the loud crack and snap when I rushed things on day 5.

So I would stretch the days of the early curing temps by 2 or 3 days each making the whole process a week and a half.

Good luck, Dino

[SCChris]

Re: OctoForno

John,

When I did my curing we had just had a 3 days of very dry Santa Ana winds, and like most of us the dome had been finished for several weeks before the entry and chimney were finished. You still have a lot of water in the bricks and stand that you're going to have to drive out, and I don’t see much advantage to using a lamp for more than a few days considering that you likely won’t be pushing beyond the 212F mark before the entry and chimney are done. When your entry and chimney are done, I'd stick with a modified curing cycle and take several days of gradual warming and I think I’d still start with the lamp, it’s an easy no brainer way to bring the dome up to close to that critical 212F. When using the lamp, put a loose, informal, door on the dome that will allow some air movement, into and out of the interior of the dome, this will contain a great amount of heat. This door should help to create a more even heating than heating without the door. I’m undecided on the optimum time to insulate the dome. I know there is an advantage to have direct air movement over the unclad dome until the majority of the water is out, and this might be a reason to just leave a work light on for a longer time before starting your low fires and insulating. I feel that the insulation will help with even heating and less structure stress and since 212F is such a critical temp, I’m of the opinion that getting the oven wrapped before going to 250F should be better.

Anyway this is just my 2 cents..

Chris

PS Whenever the insulation is applied, heating after this point will result in quicker heating to the desired target temp. I only mention this to point out that the past experince on the oven heating will not be indicative of post insulation performance. In addition as the structure drys, the heating will be more dynamic. In your specific case your floor, the soapstone, is bone dry and this will also affect how quick heating happens during curing. You're going to have to just go slow until you get a feel for how much pedal to give it to get to your target. I was suprised on 2 sucessive burns and ended at a higher temp than I had planned because the oven became more lively as it dryed.

[Pompeii Nate]

Re: OctoForno

Awesome build John! I am just in my planning phase but your build has become my idol. It is amazing!!! I am anxiously waiting to see how you do your entryway and chimney. Congrats on getting the dome finished and also to you and your daughter for her accomplishment!!

[GianniFocaccia]

Re: OctoForno

Sparky - Thank you!

John - There's no question I will be climbing into the oven prior to the first fire and vacuuming the gapo between floor and dome until it's spotless. Thanks for the heads up.

Dino, I hadn't given the curing process much thought other than slow and steady in order to allow the dome to come to temperature slowly. I will follow your advice and start with one of those halogen work lights. I accidently left my single 500-watt light on overnight earlier this week and for fun used my IR thermometer to check the dome temperarture inside. At the top of the now-enclosed dome it was 124F and 108F where the dome meets the floor. It was 104F at the top of the dome on the outside. I'll bet this will work nicely as I can rotate the light around inside the dome over the course of a few days.

Question: We both live in southern california and it's relatively dry here. Do you think after all this time that there's that much moisture in the bricks after last week's heat wave?

John

[Aegis]

Re: OctoForno

Hi John,
I agree with Dino on the high wattage bulbs/heater idea for inital curing. Although I wound up with a major crack, it wasn't due to the curing process per se. I did go into the oven and pulled out three pieces of firebrick shims I used to keep the plywood/indespensible tool centered in the dome. Totally my fault for not checking and taking them out before the major damage was done. Well it is now a very fond charater feature of the oven.
Good luck on curing and I'm sure you can almost smell that first pie!

[Dino_Pizza]

Re: OctoForno

HI John,
Congradulations on the dome (and kudus to your daughter and the you all in her family that helped her get there!).

I think you and Chris are on the right track about curing. IMHO, the old fashioned way (burning newspaper & twigs) is something to avoid unless done with GREAT care. I know others did it and succeeded, but they did because of circumstances they may not have realized. Anyway, I strongly suggest using a low wattage, fan blown heater on low. If you ARE going old skool, really spread the low fire all around. You have a big dome and if you stick to a small pile of kindle in the middle and increase 100 degrees in the same small area in the middle, by day 5, the big increase might shock the dome into expanding quicker while it still had moisture. Other than that...it's smooth sailing. Don't worry about cracks, small ones almost always happen. The bricks "absorb and reflect the heat" back into the oven. The insulation is your final dome enclosure and no heat escapes that so it's mostly a non-issue.

You're going to really enjoy your oven, I smoked a big package of chix wings, a bunch of thighs and legs, and 2 racks of pork ribs 2 weeks ago for a party (using my cherry, apricot and grape cuttings) and the f-bomb (Fabulous!) doesn't begin to describe it. Can't wait to see your 1st pizza.

Cheers, Dino

[Sparky005s]

Re: OctoForno

I'm pleased to report though, that my 16yo daughter has now qualified to swim at the 2012 Olympic Trials in Omaha next June, so whenever the oven gets completed will be soon enough.
John

Congrats to you and your daughter on the Olympics trials!

[GianniFocaccia]

Re: OctoForno

Thanks Chris - I've been thinking the same thing: my curing and oven firing approach will be patiently slow and steady with the primary objective of avoiding cracking. I also have to consider the uneven expansion rates of the SS floor and the brick dome.
John