Very tall free-standing pole (for stove-pipe support)

[countryboy]

Re: Very tall free-standing pole (for stove-pipe support)

Do you have a scrap metal salvage yard around?

We have a metal recycling place nearby that has a yard for the 'nice' culls out of the scrap. I go and browse looking for what I want then pay deep discount over new... They'll have what you are looking for and likely will cut to length and sell by the pound. Best route, hands down.

[kebwi]

Re: Very tall free-standing pole (for stove-pipe support)

There are a bunch a scrap yards around here, but I think they are mainly for recycling, so they want to take people's stuff but never advertise much interest in selling back. I'll call around and see what's up.

Cheers!

[kebwi]

Re: Very tall free-standing pole (for stove-pipe support)

So, a few posts up I showed a photo of a pole I bought and gave some basic specs on it and since I didn't receive any glaring objections, so I assumed it was a good pole for this project. I've been building my design toward using this pole for a while now, but some subsequent research has me second-guessing my design. For example, I keep reading that for a given thickness, aluminum is 1/3rd as strong as steel, so a 1/8" aluminum pipe is worse than a 1/16th steel pipe (it's no better than 1/24th" steel in fact!!!). Intuitively, this seems ridiculous to me. A 14', 1/24" steel pipe would flop over like a noodle but this 14', 1/8" aluminum pipe is confidently sturdy -- it was obviously intended to be used as a vertical pole (it's a lamp post of some sort), whereas you would never see a 1/16" (much less 1/24") steel pole for such a purpose.

So I'm very confused. Is this a strong pole or not. The fact of its existence and original purpose would suggest yes, but the math makes no sense.

Furthermore, some looking online suggests that schedule 40 aluminum pipe at the diameter of this pole would be .2" thick at the top and .226" thick at the bottom. Like I said, it's .125" thick.

Is this thing a dud? Do I need to start over with a different pole? I don't understand how it can be so weak, yet so seemingly strong at the same time.

[metalmaster]

Re: Very tall free-standing pole (for stove-pipe support)

the diameter of the material has more bearing on strength than wall thickness.
as long as you don't overload it with extra weight at the top, and make sure to properly
attach it at the base it will be fine.

[Neil2]

Re: Very tall free-standing pole (for stove-pipe support)

Here is what you want:

[kebwi]

Re: Very tall free-standing pole (for stove-pipe support)

I guess I brought that on myself.

[gmchm]

Re: Very tall free-standing pole (for stove-pipe support)

Whatever you do, your going to have an "eyesore".

[kebwi]

Re: Very tall free-standing pole (for stove-pipe support)

Ok, thanks for the input.

[kebwi]

Re: Very tall free-standing pole (for stove-pipe support)

I've been considering an alternate design.

The mockup on the left is the plan I've been aiming for for quite a while now, a very tall pole with horizontal arms. The pole I have is 1/8" aluminum, 4" at the bottom, 3" at the top. The black 'X' is not rigid arms, just guy wires.

The mockup on the right is a new idea I've had. I see a lot of stove pipes supported by rigid arms that angle up to the stove pipe at a pretty steep incline so I'm wondering if I can do the same thing, as shown.

A few important points:

• In both cases, I intend to add at least one guy wire from the higher attachment point, leading off the right in the photos to an available anchoring location about 20-30 feet away.
• In both cases I can, if I deem it helpful, run a second guy wire from the higher attachment point to the large tree directly behind the oven (relative to the photo location) -- that's about 30-40 degrees off from the first guy wire.
• In the second design, each of the support arms might be "doubled", one reaching from each side of the stove pipe down to the short pole in a very acute triangle, thus four arms in total.
• In the second design, with the shorter pole, I would definitely plan on adding a second identical short pole with a second set of steep arms supporting the stovepipe from a different angle, probably about 45 degrees. There are two potential locations for the second pole, about 45 degrees clockwise and counter-clockwise relative to the location shown in the photo...or I could put both poles at the two opposing locations for separation of about 90 degrees, which has some obvious merit to it...but I like that location in the back corner shown in the mockups because it's "out of the way" and because the gap between the oven stand and the retaining wall is wider there so I can create a fatter concrete footing than I can at the other two locations (back right and front left corners as one stands in front of the oven facing it).

[kebwi]

Re: Very tall free-standing pole (for stove-pipe support)

Any thoughts on issues that might be faced in the second design in the previous post? What sort of pipe or "bar" would you use for that? What is the minimum acuteness of angle that you think would be structurally viable (in other words, if the bar starts at height Y, what is the lowest height you would attach it to at a support pole of horizontal distance X?...which is about four feet incidentally).

Cheers!

[Tscarborough]

Re: Very tall free-standing pole (for stove-pipe support)

Personally, think they both look like hammered dog-@#$%. There has to be a better way.

[Tscarborough]

Re: Very tall free-standing pole (for stove-pipe support)

OK, let's break this down. The problem is the perception of your crazy neighbor that the smoke emitted at startup is ruining her life. So the real issue is not the performance of the oven that requires a huge stack, it is the smoke.

So the problem is the smoke. How to get rid of the smoke at startup. How about a gas burner that you put in the entry way upon startup? That should eliminate 90 to 100% of the visible smoke.

[kebwi]

Re: Very tall free-standing pole (for stove-pipe support)

I've considered using gas to get the oven started (I'm still considering it), although frankly, if she sees any smoke at all at any time during the several hours the oven is used she won't be okay with it (anytime I stir up the coals to reoxegnate the fire it smokes a little for a minute or two -- I think that's pretty normal).

Your response will be, "but a little smoke is okay", but that sort of logic is completely at odds with her thought process.

I would be more inclined to tell her to shove it and go to hell except that it really does seem to me that the top of the stove pipe is pretty low relative to the surrounding terrain. Like I've said, it's basically head-height at the ground level of the neighbor's yard and admittedly her house is, at closest, barely 30 feet away (and her shed is probably 15 feet away, remarkably close I must admit). So, imagine a chimney about six feet off the ground and 15-30 feet away from a building. That's a pretty low and close chimney by any conventional standard.

What I have always taken issue with is her patently insane accusation that the smoke burns microscopic holes in her housepaint and subsequently lets moisture through to rot the woodwork. When she starts going on about that, it becomes clear that she's an ignorant, borderline-superstitious wacko. I've spoken to fire chiefs and other employees at the fire department, and chimney and fireplace salesmen, and chimney sweeps (they still exist, they're not just from Mary Poppins), and house painters, and absolutely everyone agrees with me that her accusation is staggering in its lunacy.

...but I have never actually disagreed with her that the geometry of the oven and the house is pretty suboptimal..and the prevailing winds are ALWAYS strongly from the south so the smoke blows directly into (and yes, over) her house about 85% of the time the oven is going, basically nonstop. There is a reason chimneys are usually pretty high after all, and mine really isn't very high frankly. I admit that, and I would like to extend it. I think that's a good idea...if for no other reason than to make myself look better in any future litigation.

The guy-wire solution you advocated from the beginning would be great if I thought I could get guy-wires around the stove pipe from all directions, but there's a wide gap (probably 160 degrees) reaching into the yard from which most of the photos you've see are taken, where it is impossible to lead a guy wire, so I have felt reliant on a rigid support design...short of anchoring a guy-wire in the middle of my lawn.

[Tscarborough]

Re: Very tall free-standing pole (for stove-pipe support)

What is to say that crazy-lady is not going to complain about the smokestack itself? I understand your problem, but again, the issue is the visible smoke, not the actual smoke. A gas jet in the entry will burn the smoke from startup.

[kebwi]

Re: Very tall free-standing pole (for stove-pipe support)

She gets wound about black flecks she finds on her house. I don't know what they are, I don't care. If and when we end up in court, obviously we'll have them tested. With my luck they'll turn out to be *somebody's* smoke as opposed to something else and that won't look good for me. It isn't that she doesn't like the appearance of the smoke in the air. She has, from the beginning, gone on about actual physical spots on her house (many of which I thought looked like mold and fungus), which she claims are soot, and maybe some of them are soot from the neighborhood (heck, maybe even from my oven). No, her complaint isn't just visual, it's also physical, in as much as her physical evidence has any merit.

Do you really think a 6 foot chimney positioned a mere 15 feet from a shed and 30 feet from a 20-foot high house doesn't sound too low? I admit, the arrangement of the various pieces involved looks a little atypical. A taller stove pipe would seem to fit the circumstances better.