My indispensible tool (a variation on a FB theme)

[Tman1]

Re: My indispensible tool (a variation on a FB theme)

Not sure if you're asking for a link to thread about how to make it, or a link on where to buy such a tool. There is no place that manufactures these, they are all self made. As for a link to how it's made, I think this thread is the best spot to search.
The other is a sticky in this same forum area.
http://www.fornobravo.com/forum/f28/...idea-2573.html

[marc boulay]

Re: My indispensible tool (a variation on a FB theme)

Tman,

i want to make it. i have seen one on this forum that i think is made of stainless steel, the rod has a sort of a pipe insulator (black foam) protecting the threads i dont see other reason why. it also got a steel plate with a bushing as the center that the tool rotates on. i am looking for this perticular one because the radius is very close to the hearth level.

thanks again

marc

[Tman1]

Re: My indispensible tool (a variation on a FB theme)

I don't think it'll really matter how close the pivot point is to the hearth. Unless you're an engineer, then it would matter.

With the pivot point slightly higher (or even 3", IMO), it puts the dome midway point up a little, but I can't think it'd hardly be enough to make much visual difference, or functional for that matter. (when you take such a small section of an arc, it's hard to actually see the arc unless very small.) So, if it's raised up 2", and you're dealing with a 36" dome, that's a radius of 18".... if you look at a 4" section of that (18") arc, I bet you'd barely be able to tell it's bent much. Anyways, I might be babbling and incoherent, and wrong for that matter, or totally way off base and you have an incredibly valid reason for wanting that particular version, these are my thoughts. Maybe someone else will chime in. Good luck.

[marc boulay]

Re: My indispensible tool (a variation on a FB theme)

Tman,

it does make a difference.
if the radius is 21" and the radius point is 3" above the hearth then you would have 3" to adjust from horizontal to vertical. i know the tool is adjustable, but why not be closer to the hearth as possible to start with.

so can anyone direct me to a link for this version of the indispendable tool.
it is made of stainless steel(not important), the pivot point is low and at this point the tool rotates on a bushing on a s.s. plate


or all the different version of the tool posted into one area in the indispendable tool thread just a thought.


can anyone help me on this

thank you

marc

[marc boulay]

Re: My indispensible tool (a variation on a FB theme)

no disrespect to all the tool makers

marc

[Tman1]

Re: My indispensible tool (a variation on a FB theme)

I explained out that point. I don't think it'll make a difference in function or look. Too minor to be noticed... but you need to do what makes 'ya happy. I guess you'll need to start looking at all the old threads.

[dmun]

Re: My indispensible tool (a variation on a FB theme)

Yeah, I did a google image search for indispensable tool, and came up with nothing. Start digging, or start inventing. I think the hinge-on-lazy-susan method gives you a very low pivot position.

[jcg31]

Re: My indispensible tool (a variation on a FB theme)

Yeah, I did a google image search for indispensable tool, and came up with nothing. Start digging, or start inventing. I think the hinge-on-lazy-susan method gives you a very low pivot position.

The term "Indispensible Tool" was coined (misspelling and all) with this post. So you may want to search on a term like "pivot" or "measuring tool" to catch versions that predated this post, or try "Indispensible tool" for those who stuck with my take on the spelling.

That said, there is an image at the start of the post, along with how and why to create the pivot point where it was positioned. If I could have made the pivot point even with the surface I would have, but that would have meant drilling into the floor for the pivot's post. As designed (this post's first page) The pivot point is 3/8" above the floor, which is the thickness of the plywood platform. Accordingly, on a 42 inch oven with a 21" radius the ceiling will be 21.375" from the floor. If the pivot were to be placed 3" above the floor then the height of the ceiling would be 24". Yes one could tighten down the treads with each course to achieve a lower ceiling than the radius, but what a royal pain in the butt that would be.

I do have plans that allows for tuscan dimensions that controls and changes the height of the guide as one progresses up the courses, which will be my next build after we find a place out here in California.

Jim

[marc boulay]

Re: My indispensible tool (a variation on a FB theme)

jim wrote

I am using refrax/refmix and my experience has been so far (now on 9th course) that by the time I clean up, pick the next brick out of the bucket (water), I can release the last and place the new.


jim

is this refrax/refmix the same as high heat mortar, will it cure as fast?

the reason for my search on a perticular tool model is that i wanted to modify it as follow. i wanted to have 2 clamping tools pivoting from the same point.
wanted to put 2 bricks up at the same time. i think it can be done but again is it worth it? just a tought. i leave that with you jim and all the other experienced oven/tool makers.

tman just got your message

thank you

marc

sorry for misspelling (darn frenchmen me)

[Tman1]

Re: My indispensible tool (a variation on a FB theme)

So, because I needed to confirm I'm not a complete idiot, I got a piece of cardboard and checked out my theory on how much the raising the center point of the indispensable tool affects the radius.

Using a 21" radius, lifting the pivot point results in around an 1/8" difference in arc location. So, the biggest difference would be in overall height (added height of the amount off of the floor added to radius dimension).

OK, I'm done with this soapbox.

[jcg31]

Re: My indispensible tool (a variation on a FB theme)

Quote:
is this refrax/refmix the same as high heat mortar, will it cure as fast?
the reason for my search on a perticular tool model is that i wanted to modify it as follow. i wanted to have 2 clamping tools pivoting from the same point.
wanted to put 2 bricks up at the same time. i think it can be done but again is it worth it? just a tought. i leave that with you jim and all the other experienced oven/tool makers.

Response:
It is a high-heat mortar, but others I had used didn't set as quickly. The stuff I used I got from James via this site.

I think two heads would be cool to see created.
Jim

[arturodaprano]

Re: My indispensible tool (a variation on a FB theme)

Hi Jim

great work on the dome! I am astounded at the finish. Please clear something up for me. Is each brick cut so that it tappers?

Arthur

[jcg31]

Re: My indispensible tool (a variation on a FB theme)

Hi Jim

Please clear something up for me. Is each brick cut so that it tappers?

Arthur

Thanks Arthur.

Yes each of my bricks were "tapered". While it takes a bit more time, it is much easier than you might think and the results are well worth the effort.

This post will show you the angle and bevel cuts:
http://www.fornobravo.com/forum/8/it...html#post22689

This post will show you one way to cut the angles:
http://www.fornobravo.com/forum/8/it...html#post22897

This post illustrates an approach to calculate the bevel needed for each course:
http://www.fornobravo.com/forum/8/it...html#post22726

This post will show you one approach for cutting the bevels:
http://www.fornobravo.com/forum/8/it...html#post23605

Best of luck with your build.
Jim

[mrchipster]

Re: My indispensible tool (a variation on a FB theme)

I think I have another idea for your multiple pivot arms from the same point. I was playing with some magnet toys I had in my shop for some unknown future purpose.

The set consists of solid ball bearings and magnetic rods that have a plastic sleve around them.

In theory if the ball was sliced (ground) in half and the magnets attached to the ball they would point at the direct center of the ball thus if you have a large enough ball and it sits in the center of the dome it should provide an almost perfect zero rise axis point.



The ball bearing could be mounted on a thin metal plate that is attached to the bottom of a plywood oven floor protecting sheet or even resessed into the plywood but using sheet metal would be thin enough.



With this design you would need to keep the ball clean but this would allow for several arms to be used at the same time. The half inch ball I have with the toy set would allow for up to 4 arms on lower chains and 3 arms at approximately chain 8 or 9. A larger ball bearing would give even more flexibility.

Any thoughts?

MrChipster in Minnesota

[mrchipster]

Re: My indispensible tool (a variation on a FB theme)

I made some progress on my indispensible tool today? I tried a number of things with regard to the ball and magnet idea.

First I took a large 3.5 inch Asian relaxation ball and cut it in half thinking this would be a very good central ball but the ball is so large that the magnets to not track on it with precision. They tended to tip out of alignment when I repositioned the indispensable tool rod with a brick attached. I would need to be very careful each time I aligned the support rod so as to guarantee proper alignment with the center. So the sliced up Asian relaxation ball has been retired to the dumpster.

The second thing that I tried was to grind a flat on to a half inch steel ball bearing.

The magnets tracked properly on the half-inch ball, but the ball being so small, limited the ability to have multiple arms on the central ball at one time, that were close together.

I then took a 1 1/8 inch ball bearing and cut it a little bit beyond center. Keeping the larger piece. This will allow the magnets to track to the first and second chain easily. This seems to be if not the ideal size a very good size to use and is the design that I'm going to go forward with.

For the arms and the brick holder's, I took a piece of angle iron I had and sliced it to a size appropriate for the bricks. I purchased two Irwin quick clamps and removed the end clamp and welded the center beam to the angle. I also welded a threaded rod connector to the center of the angle. This will allow for easy removal of the clamping mechanism from the rod and because of the threads will allow me minor adjustment to the length of the rod should they be required.

The far end of the rod near the ball contains a small high-powered magnet that is glued into the hollow rod, to reinforce the hollow rod I inserted a piece of oak dowel and glued it into place.

I'm planning on building a 42 inch oven so the overall length of the rod to the face of the brick will be 21 7/16, subtracting for the radius of the ball.

The 1-1/8 ball bearing will be mounted at the center of the oven on a piece of sheet metal that will be attached to a large sheet of plastic that will be used to protect the oven floor during construction the plastic is approximately 1/16 of an inch thick so it is rigid enough to support the fasteners attached to the sheet-metal and will maintain proper position of the center ball bearing.

More later MrChipster