Lancer's Philippine Build, Close to Australia Anyhoo...

[Lancer]

Re: Lancer's Philippine Build, Close to Australia Anyhoo...

Just thinking, the circular floor should be formed as the base of the onion, the outward going part, and then a somewhat normal dome built on top, completing the sphere. Like one of those plastic Easter eggs, the bottom and top fit to make the whole.

[stonecutter]

Re: Lancer's Philippine Build, Close to Australia Anyhoo...

I did see that it was in Portugal, the Russia orthodox thing was more of my attempt at humor. I know I have something that shows how to frame out an onion done somewhere. If you want I'll see if I can dig it up.

[Lancer]

Re: Lancer's Philippine Build, Close to Australia Anyhoo...

I saw something that may be like what you're describing online. Thing is, this project is not done the way the ancients did it, unless they cooked pizza in theirs too?

Might help, I just don't know. Don't want you to have to go out of your way. The only construction question I have is how to transition from the slightly flattened sphere to the top bit that defines the onion. The arc reverses at the top a bit and that will encompass the chimney. How did the ancients do that? Framing...it might help. I have to define the inner dome in order to set bricks, yes? Seen several different ways of doing that here including a plywood frame that was burned out and made a big fire early. Interesting stuff.

So if I framed it out and then when the oven is done set fire to it, well that's taking a chance.

Here's the one I found while looking for a dome I liked...about 3/4 of the way down the page.

Special Roof Construction | Steeple Construction | Dome Construction | Vault Construction

[stonecutter]

Re: Lancer's Philippine Build, Close to Australia Anyhoo...

Might help, I just don't know. Don't want you to have to go out of your way. The only construction question I have is how to transition from the slightly flattened sphere to the top bit that defines the onion. The arc reverses at the top a bit and that will encompass the chimney. How did the ancients do that? Framing...it might help. I have to define the inner dome in order to set bricks, yes? Seen several different ways of doing that here including a plywood frame that was burned out and made a big fire early. Interesting stuff.

So if I framed it out and then when the oven is done set fire to it, well that's taking a chance.

Here's the one I found while looking for a dome I liked...about 3/4 of the way down the page.

Special Roof Construction | Steeple Construction | Dome Construction | Vault Construction

I searched everywhere for that info and couldn't find it..sorry about that!

I'm not so sure that building all of the masonry including your oven into the shape of an onion dome is a practical idea. This is not because I think it won't bake well, but from a building standpoint, your oven with that shape will make for a difficult process..for no gain on performance. Definitely wow factor.

Looking at the picture you posted, why couldn't you just build a dome with the floor at the level of the springing point of the onion. Follow standard procedure for a brick dome or vault, then, after that is built you could frame out the OD and finish it the way you want...tile,stucco, etc. You can still create the look you want doing it this way, and it would greatly simplify the building process. Just a thought.

[deejayoh]

Re: Lancer's Philippine Build, Close to Australia Anyhoo...

Very cool idea, but agree with Stonecutter that there seem to be some real issues with an onion shaped oven - efficiency, cooking space, difficulty. Seems like you could have the bottom of the onion be the base/hearth - which you could pretty easily pour with concrete, and the pizza oven dome be the top. It would be an ordinary pompeii except that the contours of the base + dome make an onion dome. Cover the whole thing with mosaic tile and you have something pretty cool

[Lancer]

Re: Lancer's Philippine Build, Close to Australia Anyhoo...

Just thinking, the circular floor should be formed as the base of the onion, the outward going part, and then a somewhat normal dome built on top, completing the sphere. Like one of those plastic Easter eggs, the bottom and top fit to make the whole.

Guys, that's the point I made here, glad you both agree.

[deejayoh]

Re: Lancer's Philippine Build, Close to Australia Anyhoo...

What I get for not reading back through all the thread I got confused by your comment about the bracing.

I guess you just need to figure out the dimensions so that you can get your insulation onto the dome aligned with the base.

The form for the base should be interesting too. I'm pretty sure rebar is easy to get in the Philippines, as I've seen it sticking out of "finished" concrete all over SE Asia, ready to impale the unsuspecting passerby...

Looking forward to seeing the progress.

[stonecutter]

Re: Lancer's Philippine Build, Close to Australia Anyhoo...

Guys, that's the point I made here, glad you both agree.

I guess I missed the point...it seemed like you wanted to build the oven itself into an Onion dome shape. Oops.

[Lancer]

Re: Lancer's Philippine Build, Close to Australia Anyhoo...

Originally yes, but these things evolve. I guess we all came to the conclusion at aprox the same time which I find amusing. By raising the floor into the dome it makes things easier and stronger. Plus, the oven is more traditional and therefore some parts of the path I'm on have been well traveled. I'm going to be relying on you guys for your insights and experience.

deejayoh, I've been delaying putting pencil to paper though I know I have to do it on this project. It feels like I need a break from construction. Between my house and my friends its been almost nonstop for 4 years, 6 days a week. I'm supposed to be retired! I might just vanish from the site for a month or two eventually when the work on the house is done and just settle down a bit, get eager to build again. Still, its good to discuss this with you guys, you know a lot more than I about this process having been through it. I really appreciate the interest you guys have taken, thank you.

Anyone with time on their hands wants to look in at the projects here's a link with lots of pics...

Link is to page one, the beginning of the whole thing, there's over 150 pages. Skip to the end if you get bored, there's more recent pics there.

Pics of the construction of Zkribbler's house in the Philippines

[Lancer]

Re: Lancer's Philippine Build, Close to Australia Anyhoo...

This is what I can do so far:

Put pencil to paper but to do that I first need to figure what I want. I want an oven that can cook pizzas for a party. Lets say I make pizzas 20" across. Seems a good #, you guys agree? Don't know how big they were back in Jersey when I was a kid, but that seems about right. So, lets say I want to do a minimum of three at a time plus have a fire. I think I'm looking at a 55ish" inside diameter, yes? I put it to the experts.

Likely no, but might as well be an optimist.

[brickie in oz]

Re: Lancer's Philippine Build, Close to Australia Anyhoo...

Lets say I make pizzas 20" across.

20" across, are you just doing 1 pizza for the whole night?
20" is a BIG pizza.
I have 12" pizza trays and they are big enough.

We do 2 at a time, the audience dont mind waiting one bit, in fact it gives them more time to talk, drink etc.
Its all about the destination, not the journey.

[cobblerdave]

Re: Lancer's Philippine Build, Close to Australia Anyhoo...

Gudday
I agree with brickie ....12 in pies, no one every goes hungry.... you got to remember your fuel consumption as well
Regards dave

[Lancer]

Re: Lancer's Philippine Build, Close to Australia Anyhoo...

We have big parties, my wife has lots of relatives and friends. I think I have to go at least 16" and three at a time in order to feed them all. Maybe 16" and a quantity of 4 at a time.

I've seen 80 people bomb in on a planned small party, 2 entire pigs consumed when the second was supposed to live out the day. HEY! Can I somehow cook a pig in such an oven? The way they do them really wastes fuel...just grilled over a long open fire with nothing containing the heat. Yeah sure, why not? Just need a tripod in the front and one in the back supporting a rotisserie. Then what they do is a guy sits there and constantly turns it, always watching. With an oven like this...a dome, the head and butt are small...it would be perfect! Cooking from all directions at once, not just from under, save a lot of fuel that way.

Can't find a pic of masses of people but here's some at a party. This is just the kids, and my friend 'Zkribbler' from the other forum I linked earlier. The parents are on either side at long tables. Lots of folks...



I'd say 50 people at this party at its height.



I do believe 55" would be enough to turn a small pig. These things are half as high as they are wide so 27" in height or or a bit over 2'. That ought to cook a medium sized pig.

Brickie, do you cook a pizza on a tray or just on the floor of the oven?

Question for you guys. On my search for red brick we encountered a stove made of red brick with a thick plate of 1/2" steel across the top as a cooking surface. Do you guys think that would make a good floor? Would I still need fire brick on the floor? Could have a piece of plate cut into a circle and build it in, nice even cooking surface, heat conducting. Has anyone ever tried steel? Oil it up at night to prevent rust.

For no particular reason, this cloud formation is enormous because that volcanic island is huge. This btw is where I plan to get pumice for insulation. I mean, that island is basically a huge pile of pumice... Seven volcanoes there one of which is still active. The camera is zoomed, its a safe distance. That cloud, its a marvel.

Taken from the balcony of our room...

[brickie in oz]

Re: Lancer's Philippine Build, Close to Australia Anyhoo...

Beautiful location and gathering.

I always use trays, the guests build their own pizzas, that way they know what size and shape to make them, some of the thicker ones (pizzas I mean ) get taken off part way through the cook the bottom and go on the hearth.

[Lancer]

Re: Lancer's Philippine Build, Close to Australia Anyhoo...

(pizzas I mean )

Ya got me! I might have woke up Abby with my laugh but...nope, got lucky.