Sourdough Bread FAILURE!!

[texassourdough]

Re: Sourdough Bread FAILURE!!

My pleasure TMan!

Pizza is so easy (compared to bread) that I think it is really easy for people to get suckered in and underestimate the challenges of bread and to try to make bread casually, and that isn't likely to be very successful in a WFO, especially with sourdough. My response is "tough love" direct because there is no reliable trick or shortcut. Sourdough is tricky. Baking (great bread) in a WFO is tricky. The combination is seriously challenging.

Much better IMO to learn sourdough indoors and to bake commercially yeasted breads in the WFO until you have both of them reasonably predictable. Then one can begin the self-humiliation of learning SD in the WFO with at least some chance of success!

Ohhh....and one last thought for Eric!

Your loaves were also underbaked as evidenced by the raw dough in the center. It can be really challenging to bake severly underproofed dough long enough - but it doesn't matter for it will be terrible (brick) if you do manage to bake it long enough anyway.

If the dough is not light and bouncy the loaf won't be either. Cold clammy stiff dough is not ready to bake (unless you are one of the people who bake straight from the fridge and that is a whole different can of worms). It will almost certainly be heavy and dense, and the flavor will usually be mediocre.

Two tools that are IMO critical for WFO bread baking are a IR thermometer so you KNOW the hearth temp and a good, temperature probe thermometer to check the internal temperature of the loaves for the less reliable/consistent your hearth temp the more variable your bake times will be and recipe times are pretty meaningless in many cases.

It's no fun to be a curmudgeon and rain on people's parades, but Eric's post highlights the disappointment that comes all too easily from baking sourdough in a WFO. The details are important!

Thanks TMan!
Jay

[Tman1]

Re: Sourdough Bread FAILURE!!

Ya know, you might not like what he has to say, but you gotta love that Jay takes the time to explain (very) thoroughly his points. Thanks Jay!

[texassourdough]

Re: Sourdough Bread FAILURE!!

Hi Eric!

Great sourdough is hard enough to do in a conventional oven. Trying to make great sourdough "casually"/occasionally in a WFO is a recipe for trouble as your experiences suggest. Three key problems:
1) having the bread at proper proofing level when going into the oven
2) having the oven properly loaded and at proper temp when the bread goes in
3) having enough humidity (steam) to give a proper crust (which in my experience requires about 15 pounds of dough in a 1 meter oven so you could figure 18). There are "workarounds" for not having enough dough but the results are IMO reliably inferior.

First issue: Proofing. You need enough experience that you can reliably have the bread ready to bake at a predictable time. This takes experience, practice, and anal dedication to details like starter and levain activity and temperature control.

Second issue: Oven Temp. You need to fire the oven until it is well loaded. At least an hour and a half and preferably 2 hours or more in my experience. Clearing is not enough for the outer refractory will still be pulling heat from the oven chamber. Then clear the oven and close it up and let it heat soak (temperature equalize). Then clean it good and mop it out at about 600 F and get the temp to the desired point - for YOUR oven and YOUR loading. I load my oven at about 560 on the hearth. I spray a little water before and after loading but I rely on the bread for most of my steam. Close the door for at least 45 minutes (in my case) before checking the bread but that is a function of loaf size and other things.

Third point: Make big batches or expect mediocre crust OR put a cloche lid or metal bowl over each loaf.

There are a variety of confusing and contradictory elements in your description of the results/baking conditions.

Your say the bottom of one loaf was burned. That would normally be too hot ahearth but you say "oven temp was 400 to 550 (I assume F). As a result I am forced to suspect the char was burned cheese.

You say the bread hadn't risen. Then it wasn't ready to bake! Period! However, it is also worth noting that cheese contains protease which breaks down gluten and diminishes bread's ability to rise. Using milk products in sourdoughs invites problems and you need to be able to make it indoors before you do it outdoors. Experimenting with recipes needs to be done indoors and with no schedule. Back to point one. You have to be able to have the bread at its peak at a predictable time.

Your second loaf seems to suggest the oven temp was not too hot but that proofing was an issue. However, your reference to temps from 400 to 550 gives me no confidence in your oven temp. While bread can be reasonably baked at hearth temps down to 450 or so, sourdough in my experience really wants higher temps. I have no idea what temp would be best for your cheese loaf. But you also need to insulate your oven before you put any serious effort into bread. It needs to hold temp and not leak the heat outside!

Welcome to the WFOs Make Sourdough Bakers Humble Club. It is quite simply not easy to make great sourdough in a WFO! It takes attention to detail and a lot of practice to get reliable results.

Good Luck!
Jay

[EricU]

As the subject title says, so far my (and my wife's) experience with cooking sourdough in our WFO has been a complete and utter failure with a capital FAIL!

I built my 42" WFO dome late last year (cookable, but not finished), barely cooked a few dishes in it prior to winter and starting a new business. But with this fantastic winter (more like spring) weather in Nor Cal I decided to fire it up again. Had a half cord of seasoned white oak delivered and so far I have pizzas, chicken, lamb, roasts and two loaves of cheese filled leavened (if that is the correct term and spelling) bread done pretty delicious. Of course cooking meat in one of these things seems almost bonehead on the difficulty scale.

I was feeling pretty cocky at the superbowl party when I walked in with my two loaves of perfect looking cheese filled (2 1/2 cups per loaf!! NOT diet food) bread. Martha! MOVE OVER!!

But one day later I was quite humbled when our first two loaves of sourdough came out HORRIBLE!

• The bottom was overcooked
• The center was undercooked
• I dont think the sourdough rose (rised? risened?) enough

Two days later and a nice pork tenderloin in between, we tried again, change that to "FAILED" again. This time;

• The bottom BURNED on the first loaf now known as "The Brick"
• The second loaf was almost edible and would be a nice stand in for some dark ages film of the almost dead chewing on what the old English would have named "Ye Ol Brick".

We have been using:

• A starter from Goldrush
• King Arthur unbleached bread flour
• water from our well (no chlorine treatment)
• An oven temp of 400 to 550
• An unisulated door, basically a 1/2 thick piece of plywood with some pieces of wood screwed onto it for handles
• An unhappy husband (me) as I LOVE sourdough frenchbread and so far there is nothing to love!

So could someone point me in the correct direction, and yes I know I can search the FB forums for "Sourdough" but all I do is end up reading about Dino's perfect breads or some guy in Australia that his bread comes out in some perfect metric way! And jealosy is an ugly, ugly emotion that I try to hide.

Thanks, Eric