Free-standing roof design help needed.

[Audionatic]

As my barrel-vault build progresses, the need for a decent weather cover is becoming more important. I hadn't originally, but am now leaning towards building a wall-less, likely post and beam, free-standing roof over the entire oven to keep it dry during the build and later in use. I figure I'll build the chimney up through it when I get to that point. What have you built, and why? What changes would you make? Please post pictures! Thanks all.

[pfennigthecat]

Re: Free-standing roof design help needed.

My roof from my thread. Very easy to build, has worked out great.
http://www.fornobravo.com/forum/6/32...tml#post161909
Make sure you plan where your chimney will go through vs where the beams need to go -- I got lucky. Also plan how to flash around the chimney carefully -- doing this with the 'cheap' WWWWWW type corrugated metal would be hard, but the cheap roofing I used had flat areas that is easier to go through and make relatively water tight.

[Audionatic]

Re: Free-standing roof design help needed.

Nice! I'm planning a peak, centered over the chimney, but that's the type of post and beam support I'd envisioned. I like the way you integrated the columns into the masonry. Are those 4x4 posts? They look like cedar. What'd you use to fasten through the corrugated into the beams. Very nice look! Thanks.

[Gulf]

Re: Free-standing roof design help needed.

How about a "stick built scissor truss"? I went with that design because it can be set low enough to protect the oven from rain, but still allow some headroom during the build. It also allows for a little more viewing room of the work that you have done!





I included the second pic to hopefully show how the members "run by" one another. They are not cleated at the joints like trusses are normally constructed. Stick building the truss, allows you to incude a "ridge pole". The ridge pole allows for a longer projection on the gabled ends. That will give your ovens entry, (and you) more protection from the rain. The "stick built scissor truss" is also, real easy to design and build .

[jeeppiper]

Re: Free-standing roof design help needed.

That roof looks awesome, Gulf....I like what you did with metallic (galvanized) underneath.

[Audionatic]

Re: Free-standing roof design help needed.

Gulf-
That's a great looking design also! I do like that this allows you to bring the cover forward, out over the front and back a ways. Had hoped to create a wood stack cover behind the oven rear wall and a bit of area for a high shelf for the guys to hang out under and "supervise" while I cook. How high is the ridge and whats the dimensions of your posts? Very nice open look underneath would look good with the under eave up-lighting I'm pulling wire for. Thanks!

[Audionatic]

Re: Free-standing roof design help needed.

Gulf-
When you get a chance, can you give a little detail on what you used, and the spans? I'm probably going to space the four columns 9' wide and 10' front-to-back, to CLs.
Will likely cantilever an additional 3' forward, 2' behind, and 2' overhang each side. What are the trusses made of? Spacing? Where'd you source the corrugated? Did you put the ridge beam up on king posts before setting the scissor trusses? Please excuse any misuse of terms here. I'm only a half-a$$ed DIY carpenter. Thanks very much.

[nissanneill]

Re: Free-standing roof design help needed.

Why just cover the oven when you will probably need to include an outdoor kitchen for year round use. A temporary shelter can ease the construction initially, but look a little further down the track. We don't have the cold/snow/ice extremes of winter in Australia but my outdoor sheltered area is useable 365 days a year. See th link below to view!

Neill

[Gulf]

Re: Free-standing roof design help needed.

No problem with the terminology. But, it may get more interesting, since the term ?king post? is mostly used for a true roof truss design. Then there is the stick building method with rafters and joists. The design that I used is a stick built scissor truss. A stick built scissor truss, is a little of both worlds. I will try and include terms from both.

I used 6? X 6? X 10? pressure treated pine for the beams. They are supported by 4? X 8? pressure treated poles. The beams are set at an 8? width (outside measurement). Also note, that the pressure treated material is ground contact rated. The beams cantilever over the poles 26? to the front of the oven, but only 4? to the back. Roughly, I have 3? of roof coverage in the front and 1? in the back. Had I of cut my ridge beam longer, I could have easily added one more run of 36 ? metal roofing and gained another foot in the front and a couple in the back.

I tied the 6? X 6? beams together on each end with temporary joists (chord beams) to keep them from spreading and to help in squaring the structure. In this, case 8 foot 2X4s that had not yet been cut for rafters. I did not use temporary king posts, but two of them, would have been easy to attach to the temporary joists. On a much longer span, that would have been the thing to do. I just ?eyeballed? the slope of the cut in the rafter?s ?birdsmouth? to toe nail them to the 6X6s. (I used 3? deck screws to do that). When both pairs of gable end rafters were in place, I slid the ridge board in place from underneath. The two pairs of gable end rafters hold the ridge board in place firmly until they can be fastened to it permanently. Then it was just fitting the lower rafters (chords) to run by on opposite sides of the upper rafters. There will be a 1 ?? gap between intersection of the lower rafters which need to be filled with blocking and secured to complete the bracing. A king post would work pretty well to do that. I skipped the king post and just filled in with cutoffs from my rafters. Doing that seemed to give more area to get about 5 screws in the intersection on each side.

The lower rafters on the gable trusses can only be run by on the back side of the upper rafters. The face side will have to be scribed and cut to fit to fill in and keep the gable truss flush.

My rafters are not a stock size. They were cut from 8? 2?X10? scaffold boards that I did not have another use for. I think that they ended being a little over 4 ?? after ripping them on the table saw. Standard 2X4s would have been just fine up to about a 10 foot span in my opinion. Greater spans would require 2X6s.

The rafters are set on 24? centers and the ridge beam I just a little over 10 feet from the ground.

The metal was salvaged, from an old shed on my dad?s place. I helped build that shed when I was very young. It will probably take a salvage dealer, Craig?s List or something similar in your area to find used corrugated metal. But, there are ways to artificially age the new stuff.

I did not intend for this post to get so long winded. For me, it seems a lot easier to build something than, to try and explain it

[Audionatic]

Re: Free-standing roof design help needed.

You've sure shortened the learning curve for me, Gulf! I'm going to follow your framing design pretty closely I think. Will have to look into the best roofing choice for my use, and see if metal roofing is affordable in some form. Thanks for taking the time. It's a big help.

[Gulf]

Re: Free-standing roof design help needed.

I'm glad to have helped. I wish that I had taken more pics when I was framing. If you have any more questions, feel free to ask. Metal roofing might not right for you. The scissor truss will hold up any standard roofing material, if it is designed correctly.

Neill has a good point about any future kitchen design that you might add on. If, one may be in your future plans, now is the time to decide how you will incorporate it. My intentions for a future out door kitchen is to build a wider scissor truss design for it. I would like for the gable overhangs to over lap some, but still have the two structures to be free standing from each other. Another way, that I may decide on, is to build the two structures perpindicular to each other, and valley the two together. But, there are lots of ways to do it. I'm looking forward to what you come up with the "roof over", and the oven .

[Novaslo]

Re: Free-standing roof design help needed.

I'm glad to have helped. I wish that I had taken more pics when I was framing. If you have any more questions, feel free to ask. Metal roofing might not right for you. The scissor truss will hold up any standard roofing material, if it is designed correctly.

Neill has a good point about any future kitchen design that you might add on. If, one may be in your future plans, now is the time to decide how you will incorporate it. My intentions for a future out door kitchen is to build a wider scissor truss design for it. I would like for the gable overhangs to over lap some, but still have the two structures to be free standing from each other. Another way, that I may decide on, is to build the two structures perpindicular to each other, and valley the two together. But, there are lots of ways to do it. I'm looking forward to what you come up with the "roof over", and the oven .

Your roof is epic gorgeous.....Wow.

I sure love this journey and the online friends that are building and cooking such great stuff.
Truly great Gulf!!

[Novaslo]

Re: Free-standing roof design help needed.

Hey Gulf,
I was going through your photo's and I have to ask a quick question....first, what a masterpiece..

Can you tell me whast you used to get your dome perfectly smooth? I have a layer of stucco on mine and need to smooth out some curves and get ready for tile.

I am struggling with what to use on the outside in preparation as well as do I use a rubber or plastic trowel? Working with Stucco, vermicrete and cement is so hard.
Can you throw down a tip or two?

Thanks in advance.

[UtahBeehiver]

Re: Free-standing roof design help needed.

That is why Gulf's oven is deemed the "Queen". BTW Gulf, how did your SM do this year. Mine are just about done, I think one more batch and now harvesting seeds for 2015.

[Gulf]

Re: Free-standing roof design help needed.

Darin,

Thanks very much for the compliment. My advice is to keep playing with the vcrete layer to get the oven shape as uniform as possible. The best way to have done that, would have been with one of two variations of a rounded trial.
Mine was fixed to a rotating template.



Russell (UtahBeehiver) I believe, used a rotating template along with a with curved trial, but with more of a freehand type of approach.

Russell, you can jump in here any time .



Since you are wanting to contour some already applied vcrete, I would buy or fabricate a tool like this. It is a 12" drywall taping knife. It is what I used to freehand some areas of my vcrete and exclusively for the stucco.



They are built with a slight curve. It would be great tool to help contour your vcrete. If your (already applied) vcrete is dry on the outside, use a paint brush to sweep off all loose material. A vaccum cleaner woud help. I used an air compressor to blow off the loose material.

Just before applying more vcrete to fill in those indentions, use a spritz bottle to lightly dampen the surface.

To completely answer your questions, I will have to update this post tommorow night on how to use the taping knife for stucco. But, this should keep you busy for at least one day. I only have a few minutes each night to post. 12 hour work days + the chores around the house .