Home Brew

[v12spirit]

Re: Home Brew

Thanks Saovicente, DavidApp.
I appreciate your details and trial to make a sample. In the first attempt, I let the brew dry in the weather. Ended up quite crumbly. The second was yesterday. I made 1.5 Liters brew and covered it immediately with plastic and left it outside 3-15 C.

Saovicente. Looks like I have to do it again using your sophisticated recipe. What did you mean by 6 to 9 mil of plastic. I may even warm the steel liner to keep the brew warm.

DavidApp. The Portland cement is fresh. I just used it fo other applications and it hardened pretty well. Eager to hear about the results of your experiment.

[DavidApp]

Re: Home Brew

Having made a small sample of home brew I cast a piece about 8' diameter by 1 1/2 " thick and left it to set overnight. About 12 hours later I removed the casting from the tub. It had set but the edge was crumbly. After 24 hours I can break pieces off the edge and they crumble. I will keep checking it at 24 hour intervals.
I made up another small batch, wet 2 brick segments as I would when I was laying the dome. Then mortared them together with the home brew mix. The mortar grabbed quickly. I will check the bond in the morning.

I know how strong Heat Stop 50 is because I tried to remove a brick that had slipped a fraction. I could not pry it out and hitting it did not budge it. I decided to leave it as it seemed it would take a lot of effort to remove it.

David

[v12spirit]

Re: Home Brew

That is exactly what happened with me the first day. Eager to hear more from your progress.

[cobblerdave]

Re: Home Brew

G'day
Of course these samples are not entirely cured. The Portland cement may be set but not cured that will take a month to get near to its ultimate strength. As for the lime it can be a longer period for it to combine with CO2 it will the heat from an oven will accelerate this otherwise it can be years.
Yes Ciment fondue makes a fast setting mortar its completely cured in the first 24 hrs. Its heat resistant to twice the temps of a WFO. But it cant be used to span a gape of more than 5 mm its too hard and it will crack. Homebrew is softer and can fill larger gapes. Its a mortar designed to fill the gapes between brick units, its a gasket rather than a super hard "glue"
I think you are looking for your samples to be super hard and cured fully but that's not what homebrew is. Its a mortar pure and simple
Regards Dave

[v12spirit]

Re: Home Brew

G'day
Homebrew is softer and can fill larger gapes. Its a mortar designed to fill the gapes between brick units, its a gasket rather than a super hard "glue"
I think you are looking for your samples to be super hard and cured fully but that's not what homebrew is. Its a mortar pure and simple
Regards Dave

Those experiments were tempting me to order cement fondue and clad with it 50.50 with sand. Do you mean homebrew will do the job better?
By the way, does a bag of cement fondue has an expiration date as the bags of Portland cement? I'm just afraid I will end up buying expired fondue while I could keep experimenting with fresh homebrew..

[cobblerdave]

Re: Home Brew

G'day
Im saying that homebrew is a mortar not for casting structures but as the casket between bricks units in a WFO operating up to certain temperatures.
If faced with out of date ciment fondu or a home brew,personally I would use a homebrew concrete.
I would use gravel as part of the 5 parts sand ( 5 parts not 3) so it was more like a concrete as different to a mortar.
I would not use the clay component its there to make the mortar mix more workable as a mortar.
Yes I'm fully aware of the "shoestring oven" made of homebrew mortar and steel frame. As much as everyone likes to see it work, its a one off and has never been repeated to my knowledge.
Regards dave

[DavidApp]

Re: Home Brew

The test block is getting harder more difficult to break the edges. The test bricks seem to be well bonded.

[Saovicente]

Re: Home Brew

Thanks Saovicente, DavidApp.
I appreciate your details and trial to make a sample. In the first attempt, I let the brew dry in the weather. Ended up quite crumbly. The second was yesterday. I made 1.5 Liters brew and covered it immediately with plastic and left it outside 3-15 C.

Saovicente. Looks like I have to do it again using your sophisticated recipe. What did you mean by 6 to 9 mil of plastic. I may even warm the steel liner to keep the brew warm.

DavidApp. The Portland cement is fresh. I just used it fo other applications and it hardened pretty well. Eager to hear about the results of your experiment.

The mil is for the thickness of the plastic sheet(s). If you cannot or you do not wish to buy plastic with the mil specs, just cut a a few garbage bags and layers them on top of the mold. (better than just leave the mold wide open) and add blankets. You need the heat retention to give you a solid block.
Look at this way: to make a strong concrete countertop piece, it is usually recommended to try to keep the temperature up to 120 degrees.

What is the current temperature for your work area? Do you have a thermostat located near the area or is this piece being made at its permanent location?

[Saovicente]

Re: Home Brew

G'day
Im saying that homebrew is a mortar not for casting structures but as the casket between bricks units in a WFO operating up to certain temperatures.
If faced with out of date ciment fondu or a home brew,personally I would use a homebrew concrete.
I would use gravel as part of the 5 parts sand ( 5 parts not 3) so it was more like a concrete as different to a mortar.
I would not use the clay component its there to make the mortar mix more workable as a mortar.
Yes I'm fully aware of the "shoestring oven" made of homebrew mortar and steel frame. As much as everyone likes to see it work, its a one off and has never been repeated to my knowledge.
Regards dave

Cobblerdave,

I have to respectively disagree with your assessment. My oven is prove that the 3.1.1.1 does work. I read through over a hundred + articles, blogs on the subject of making an oven on this site and others using various materials, formulas. I also spoke to individuals from companies which sell materials for making pottery, kilns, etc., for their opinions on materials used in making an oven.

I knew an oven could be made from about anything. (look at the clay ovens that are still functioning throughout the world) Families from my home country still use them for bread, cakes and so on without issues)

The key for me was to find something new, challenging that would provide me with a fast, flexible, cost effective, stable oven build to play with.

About a year ago, I created a test mini-oven (building it in a singular form) using the formula (which I posted in March on this site) without the needles and fibers and it worked (cracking a few places along the way)
I continued on and made a far better oven utilizing the specs learned here and another site on the how-to of building an oven. The baby heats up to temperature in less than 90 minutes (especially when I am patient with the fire) throughout the fluctuating New England weather.
As a test, I also build the first section of my chimney using the formula and it is still standing with one hair line crack after 6 or so months of use. (The chimney project and housing of the oven is still in progress)

[Saovicente]

Re: Home Brew

Having made a small sample of home brew I cast a piece about 8' diameter by 1 1/2 " thick and left it to set overnight. About 12 hours later I removed the casting from the tub. It had set but the edge was crumbly. After 24 hours I can break pieces off the edge and they crumble. I will keep checking it at 24 hour intervals.
I made up another small batch, wet 2 brick segments as I would when I was laying the dome. Then mortared them together with the home brew mix. The mortar grabbed quickly. I will check the bond in the morning.

I know how strong Heat Stop 50 is because I tried to remove a brick that had slipped a fraction. I could not pry it out and hitting it did not budge it. I decided to leave it as it seemed it would take a lot of effort to remove it.

David

I would recommend letting the brew stay in place for at least a week without removing the casting, covered with plastic and blankets (pending outside temperature). avoid removing the plastic everyday, simply reach under the the layers of coverage and touch the brew to feel its temperature. Again, one the key steps to make sure the temperature of the brew is very warm to hot to the touch in the first one to days after the build.

PS: if you are concerned with removing the casting after a long period, rub vegetable oil on the form before pouring the mix and if it is cold outside when mixing, use warm water when making the recipe. It makes a huge difference.

[DavidApp]

Re: Home Brew

Hello Saovicente

I am not attempting to make anything with my home brew castings. I was doing a test to help V12Spirit. He reported that he was having issues with his home brew casting being crumbly.
I knew that my home brew set up hard but I had not checked to see how long it took to harden to the point it would not crumble.

My test casting is almost hard enough that I can no longer break pieces off.

On another note Heat Stop 50 acts like a glue. On my floor bricks I had a few very small pieces. I used HS50 to bond the small piece to the next brick. A few days later when I was assembling the floor I had to shave a small amount off the small piece. The HS50 held it as I used the wet saw.

David

[Saovicente]

Re: Home Brew

Ok! cool....I have stayed away from the refractory products just because of the pricing. lift the piece and feel its weigh than keep it covered for a few more days and lift it up again and you feel a difference.

[cobblerdave]

Re: Home Brew

Cobblerdave,

I have to respectively disagree with your assessment. My oven is prove that the 3.1.1.1 does work. I read through over a hundred + articles, blogs on the subject of making an oven on this site and others using various materials, formulas. I also spoke to individuals from companies which sell materials for making pottery, kilns, etc., for their opinions on materials used in making an oven.

I knew an oven could be made from about anything. (look at the clay ovens that are still functioning throughout the world) Families from my home country still use them for bread, cakes and so on without issues)

The key for me was to find something new, challenging that would provide me with a fast, flexible, cost effective, stable oven build to play with.

About a year ago, I created a test mini-oven (building it in a singular form) using the formula (which I posted in March on this site) without the needles and fibers and it worked (cracking a few places along the way)
I continued on and made a far better oven utilizing the specs learned here and another site on the how-to of building an oven. The baby heats up to temperature in less than 90 minutes (especially when I am patient with the fire) throughout the fluctuating New England weather.
As a test, I also build the first section of my chimney using the formula and it is still standing with one hair line crack after 6 or so months of use. (The chimney project and housing of the oven is still in progress)

G'day Sandro
I've gone back to your CP and checked out your threads and now I remember your oven. How did the main oven finally turn out? It's a shame that you didn't post the build especially now your back. I'd really like to see some pics of your oven as it stands today.
Sorry I'm still cautious of the advice I give and I'm not fully convinced that the homebrew will stand up over the long term. But I'm willing to change my mind if I see the results long term.
Why don't you post some of your new oven along with your " mini mee" oven. It would be a great resource and add a link to your posts.
Regards dave

[Yucateko]

Re: Home Brew

One other question, is Perlite and Vermiculite interchangeable?

[Tscarborough]

Re: Home Brew

Yes, it is the same mineral in different forms.