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I didn?t want to intrude on Brianventura's thread so I moved my build to this one:
First a little back ground:
Many years ago i lived in Sicily (just outside Catania in Ficarazzi, Aci Castello) When I was there i fell in love with the Italian style pizza and fresh bread (goes without saying). I even rented a place from a man that made a living building brick ovens for the local businesses. He gave me a few pointers and guidance but never all of it but what he did instill has stuck with me throughout the years. Now 12 years later I finally have the opportunity (and space) to build my own.
for over a year now I have been researching (mainly this site) and trying to piece together what i remember from Salvo and Juicy (yes juicy is a common Italian name for a girl, this was Salvo's wife), the plans and guidance from Forno Bravo and what I learned from the Masons at the mason supply house up the street.
That leads me to where I am at today. I was hoping to get the dome built today, but since it seems like the rain is off and on I figured I would consult forum for input and guidance since it seems I may be headed down a bad road that others have gone before.
I will directly quote a few concerns that LBUROU and DMUN made that have me somewhat concerned. I think I may have the addressed but better safe than sorry and now is the opportune time to incorporate a change should there be a need. So if you have tried something similar and think I should change please let me know, Thanks
First of all Thanks you to Brian(Ventura) he provided the post that initially got me actively participating in the forum.
1. One thing I remember Salvo stating over and over again was that "for the oven to live up to the fullest potential you had to maximize the brick face area inside the oven and eliminate any exposed mortar."
This is why i chose the broad face of the brick facing in. i did plan on installing a band of wire mesh around the soldier course after I had the set and the brick wedges installed. Then adding a supporting structure of regular brick outside the insulating layer up as high as the soldier course
2. Bad advice from "Expert Masons" I agree and was reluctant, but instead of asking how they build their ovens, I gathered information on mixes of insulating concrete and what each ingredient brought to the table: Basically i only relied on their collective knowledge of the concrete itself and not their building skills
My idea (Dream) is to
1. Completely assemble the dome with fire brick wedges and no mortar, then add the fire clay mortar to the outside.
2. Add insulating layer
3. build traditional structure from the block stand up to the top of the soldier course (providing strength) the attach wire mesh and stucco to the exposed top dome.
4. Stucco and brick the facade of the stand
NOTE: sometimes I let my engineering brain override common sense just to see if it works. I do not recommend this to anyone since 1) I have no previous experience 2) this has not proven to work yet and 3) following the plans is proven to work time and time again
First a little back ground:
Many years ago i lived in Sicily (just outside Catania in Ficarazzi, Aci Castello) When I was there i fell in love with the Italian style pizza and fresh bread (goes without saying). I even rented a place from a man that made a living building brick ovens for the local businesses. He gave me a few pointers and guidance but never all of it but what he did instill has stuck with me throughout the years. Now 12 years later I finally have the opportunity (and space) to build my own.
for over a year now I have been researching (mainly this site) and trying to piece together what i remember from Salvo and Juicy (yes juicy is a common Italian name for a girl, this was Salvo's wife), the plans and guidance from Forno Bravo and what I learned from the Masons at the mason supply house up the street.
That leads me to where I am at today. I was hoping to get the dome built today, but since it seems like the rain is off and on I figured I would consult forum for input and guidance since it seems I may be headed down a bad road that others have gone before.
I will directly quote a few concerns that LBUROU and DMUN made that have me somewhat concerned. I think I may have the addressed but better safe than sorry and now is the opportune time to incorporate a change should there be a need. So if you have tried something similar and think I should change please let me know, Thanks
First of all Thanks you to Brian(Ventura) he provided the post that initially got me actively participating in the forum.
Originally posted by Lburou
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Great looking floor Brian (Bmwdiver)
You may have some difficulty down the road with a tall soldier course as pictured. The outward force of the dome tends to push the top of the soldier bricks outward and cause cracks, even dome failure....Unless you install a strap of some kind around the soldiers[/COLOR][/COLOR]. I went with a half brick soldier course. Also, the bricks are a bit more stable if the thin side is placed toward the center of the oven.
This is a good time to follow the proven design in the pompeii plans (forgive me for the negativity here, just trying to save you some grief ). Trust me, unless the guys down where they sell firebricks have made one of these ovens, they will likely give poor advice on building this race horse of an oven.
This forum contains report after report about 'expert' masons who either build or otherwise contribute to a failed oven. If you want the reliability and performance of the pompeii oven, follow the plans as closely as you can.
You may have some difficulty down the road with a tall soldier course as pictured. The outward force of the dome tends to push the top of the soldier bricks outward and cause cracks, even dome failure....Unless you install a strap of some kind around the soldiers[/COLOR][/COLOR]. I went with a half brick soldier course. Also, the bricks are a bit more stable if the thin side is placed toward the center of the oven.
This is a good time to follow the proven design in the pompeii plans (forgive me for the negativity here, just trying to save you some grief
). Trust me, unless the guys down where they sell firebricks have made one of these ovens, they will likely give poor advice on building this race horse of an oven. This forum contains report after report about 'expert' masons who either build or otherwise contribute to a failed oven. If you want the reliability and performance of the pompeii oven, follow the plans as closely as you can.
Originally posted by dmun
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1. One thing I remember Salvo stating over and over again was that "for the oven to live up to the fullest potential you had to maximize the brick face area inside the oven and eliminate any exposed mortar."
This is why i chose the broad face of the brick facing in. i did plan on installing a band of wire mesh around the soldier course after I had the set and the brick wedges installed. Then adding a supporting structure of regular brick outside the insulating layer up as high as the soldier course
A. I guess I should explain my wedges: Salvo built his oven's using no mortar between the fire bricks using and inflatable balloon and wedges cut from the same fire brick that were held in place with the insulating layer. This is what I had planned to do, even for the first course. Basically set up the first course (soldier) adjust until all the angles were the same, cut wedges to fit, install the band and secure to the front opening bricks. Then follow suit with the remaining courses. I watched him do it several time and he always made sure that the face inside the oven was always the larges surface the just added wedges under the brick between each course and pushed them in until the angle was set then locked the course in with a keystone.
2. Bad advice from "Expert Masons" I agree and was reluctant, but instead of asking how they build their ovens, I gathered information on mixes of insulating concrete and what each ingredient brought to the table: Basically i only relied on their collective knowledge of the concrete itself and not their building skills
A. Portland/vermiculite (Perlite)/lime/sand
Portland cement = bonding agent
Vermiculite (Perlite) = insulation/fire proofing
Lime = strength
Sand = adhesion
(At least i hope i got it right)
Most of the recipes i found balance the insulation and strength. One thing i learned was if you adjust to maximize one particular zone then the others and reduced (drastically). Needless to say i wanted to maximize the insulation properties and to compensate for the reduced strength and adhesion I planned to not rely on the hearth to provide structure to support weight or rely on the hearth to adhere to itself (basically hold itself together). that is why I added the center support wall in the middle (picture) and added stele straps under the cement board (not shown), then plan on adding a traditional brick and mortar structure to the surrounding area above the blocks and carry them into the hearth to completely encase the hearth so that it does not fall apart. (i tried it on a small test piece with excellent results). This allowed me to maximize the insulation attribute of the hearth to allow me to utilize the split brick for the floor.Portland cement = bonding agent
Vermiculite (Perlite) = insulation/fire proofing
Lime = strength
Sand = adhesion
(At least i hope i got it right)
My idea (Dream) is to
1. Completely assemble the dome with fire brick wedges and no mortar, then add the fire clay mortar to the outside.
2. Add insulating layer
3. build traditional structure from the block stand up to the top of the soldier course (providing strength) the attach wire mesh and stucco to the exposed top dome.
4. Stucco and brick the facade of the stand
NOTE: sometimes I let my engineering brain override common sense just to see if it works. I do not recommend this to anyone since 1) I have no previous experience 2) this has not proven to work yet and 3) following the plans is proven to work time and time again
Kudos to dmun for realizing that before it was too late for you!
: popcorn : 
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