Rustic Primitive Materials

[Bacterium]

Re: Rustic Primitive Materials

Brickie is just fitting in with the topical nature of this thread.....

Rustic.

[brickie in oz]

Re: Rustic Primitive Materials

You need to go an raid the kitchen cupboard again and make another arch profile, unless you already have two?
Find some battens and make the oven profile like the drawing, that way you can lay the whole oven roof as one.

Dont worry about getting the profile out, it will just burn out when you have finished.

The inside joints need to be so thin that they are almost nothing, the outside joints will of course be bigger.

Dave will poke fun at my pic, but its all Ive got in my drawing skills.

Edit:-
I meant to also add that we have been down the wrong end of struggle street too, we bought a "very successful" business off some so called friends of ours and it nearly ruined us, we came so close many times to loosing the house.
Hang in there.

[cobblerdave]

Re: Rustic Primitive Materials

Gudday Annie
Ha a photo .....now that's looking remarkably Good. Nothing like a photo to clear things up. And I can see what's been holding thing up or in this case what's not holding things up those gapes in the middle and end of the arch. You have got to have brick to brick contact.

Now I know that the photo is on its side but if you have a look at the junction of the arch and the wall that little slither of brick that's what you need. That's been cut with a brick bulster in fact my whole oven has.
Now they don't have to be perfect brick to brick contact is what your after. Mortar will fill the imperfections. So what if there not flush and poke up a bit ... No one will see them in the end cause there on the outside of the oven and will be covered with mortar.
Regards Dave
PS I lay no claim to the wisdom but I will except ancient I'm a retired sailor ....I think last captain I served under Noah

[cobblerdave]

Re: Rustic Primitive Materials

Gudday Annie
Brickie as usual is right ,that's a recipe for a disaster.
Annie, Annie you always amaze me with the different pathways that you continually try turn into. I mean this in the nicest possible way, you must never stop thinking.
The forum build ovens based on the wisdom of those 2000 yr old Pompeii oven builders using newer materials and methods. You have collected a good pile of both wisdom and materials for an oven build so let's stick ( as closely as Annie possible ) to one plan and get this done. Cause its warming up from winter perfect oven building wheather( here its cooling down from one hot wet summer again perfect oven building wheather)
As always awaiting you next post with interest...Go Girl!
Regards dave

[brickie in oz]

Re: Rustic Primitive Materials

Another thought... would a configuration of a few arcs like the ribs in a wooden boat but made of iron be possible inside the vault to support the bricks... we have Jake the blacksmith out here who is amazing and could make me something simple... or is that toooooo much? Or maybe all it takes is some kind of bar like you see holding together the walls of old gothic architecture.

Fire and or high heat and steel dont go together, well they do, but in all the wrong ways you are talking about.
The steel will stretch and twist in an oven situation.
and be useless.

[brickie in oz]

Re: Actually... No Problemo

I decided to go forward... I am going to do the vault ceiling in strings of arcs that way if one fails only one section will fall...

Thats the weakest way to build a vault, less strength than if they are all tied in together.

I leaned my full body weight into what is already built and it seems sooooo solid I don't foresee the weight of 8 or 9 bricks pushing the wall out... probably missing something very obvious... give me a hint if so!!

I'm off to the beach to see if there are any architects out clamming... very low tide this morning!

No good asking an architect to fix your oven, its like asking a car designer to fix your car.....

Take a look at this site for buttressing.

[brickie in oz]

Re: Rustic Primitive Materials

I thought the permacrete insulation layer would help buttress the whole thing up a

Yes and no.
With a barrel vault you need some serious buttressing to stop the roof from pushing the walls out and falling in.
The roof just wants to lay flat and will be for ever trying to push out the walls, every time you light the oven and it expands the walls will push out just a tad more each time.

Permacrete will sort of help but wont have the desired buttressing effect to stop movement.

You need as Dave has suggested a covering of concrete (mortar is useless as it will just crack and fail) and some reinforcing, chicken wire, fencing or barbed wire will work too.
The reinforcing needn't be too thick, 2" should be fine.

If you go too thick with covering there will be trade off with fuel and time needed to bring the oven to temp, if you go too thin it will just fail and not work.


Wow!!
What a very verbose reply from me......

[cobblerdave]

Re: Rustic Primitive Materials

Gudday Annie
You might want to buttruse the whole outside with an inch of mortar Bed in some chicken wire for added strength.
Regards dave

[cobblerdave]

Re: Rustic Primitive Materials

Gudday
O Annie your poor hands. Gloves at the least, raid the kitchen drawers and find a spatular or something so you can butter that wedge of mortar to the brick. Yes you'll have a couple slide off but you'll get practiced. Vinegar will take away the sting but not repair the damage
Regards dave

[brickie in oz]

Re: Rustic Primitive Materials

Your photo is what I wish I could do but cannot... no saw. All I have is a hammer & chisel. I just was hoping I could use mortar & brick chunks... I thought the permacrete insulation layer would help buttress the whole thing up and cover all the experiments (mistakes actually).

Are you going to build an enclosure around the oven if so loose pearllite will be better.

No saw, stick chunks of bricks in the large joint at the back, mortar alone wont do.

[brickie in oz]

Re: The Gap

Question... Can I just use a 'wedge' of mortar for this area... or is it better to mix the mortar with small brick chunks?? I think these are my only options I tried splitting to fit and that was.... well let's just say it didn't work!! I can easily make the 'chunky peanut butter'.

You need to cut the top bricks back if at all possible.

The home brew mortar is great... I used my own sand and my own clay and it sets up beautifully, absolutely solid... and I found there is nothing more precise than the human hand for applying it to the bricks (never got around to getting a trowel)

Hope you have a spare set of hands, youre going to need them.

[Laurentius]

Re: Rustic Primitive Materials

Hi Annie,

I hope that all is well. Checking to see if you received my PM, is so please reply, that way I can pass it on to someone else if you don't want it. How is your oven coming along?

[david s]

Re: Rustic Primitive Materials

Hey Annie,

I don't want to start a big debate about using a soldier course or not!!!
I believe that half bricks laid on there flats (in this application) are stonger because they bond opposed to full bricks standing on there ends.
Half bricks are equal in size so it is easier to keep the vertical joins from lining up, if you go from a 2.5'' brick face (soldier course) to a 4.5'' brick face (half brick on its flat)somewhere the joins will line up as you go around the course it is hard to stop this from happening and you end up with vertical joins lining up, and may cause cracking.

There is a reason why the sky is blue but it is very long winded!!!

I brought up the structural unsoundness of a soldier course in another thread somewhere. In the absence of any support for laying the bricks like that, I think the discussion determined that although it may give you extra room on the side it is still structurally unsound an d if you want the extra height then the bricks should be laid flat there.

[david s]

Re: Rustic Primitive Materials

Lots of kilns use a cube form. The big advantage is easier loading because the sides are straight. The downside is poorer heat circulation (cool spots) and you need a way to support the roof. One way that is simple and works well is to drill holes through the bricks and insert steel rods with threads and nuts on the end. I built a top loading kiln like this once. The removable roof was the lid.

[Tscarborough]

Re: Rustic Primitive Materials

Square shouldn't be a problem, my next one will be so.