Structural Slab for new WFO

[UtahBeehiver]

Re: Structural Slab for new WFO

Mikku,

Half a world away, I did the same thing last night, except my group was only 11. So today, I am also trying to make bread for the first time in my oven. Nothing as complex as your sour dough, doing French bread. They are in the final stage of raising then in the oven they go. My residual heat right now is 400-425 F and then planning on doing blacken salmon after that for dinner.

[Laurentius]

Re: Structural Slab for new WFO

Mikku-sama,

Please drop a subtle hint to your wife the Peanut Butter cookies are my favorite and you just might score some Caputo 00 pizza flour.

[mikku]

Re: Structural Slab for new WFO

Lawrence-
Hint taken-cookies are in the mail! Not like someone that we know, they got off Monday morning early on my way to work- via Kuronikku Takubin (UPS Japan).

No need for barter, you do more than I could ever repay in a lifetime. Thanks for all your assistance. How is the list coming for "scavenge items" when I am looking for antiques. The "Utsunomiya Shinyo-kinko 30 year special casting tea pot" seems to have taken up residency in my office. When I come across its' twin. I know where it will be traveling to. Also, any high quality old Japanese knives or farming grass hooks- like scythes or interesting old stuff has to come in pairs also--I'm dibsing the first one but if there are two, your name is on it! What is your taste in old pottery, tonsu chests, lanterns, and stuff like that? I have an eye on a property on the way to work.......have to speak to Numao about approaching the owner...if still alive. He has all the techniques down pat from 40 years of picking... sure loved looking at some of his stuff from the Edo period and Early Meiji period!
Do you have any interest in woven bamboo baskets--like those used for gathering mushrooms and stuff like that?

Really need a list--But thanks again for your help on the sourdough bread!

Forgot to tell you about the old coke or coal burning stoves that I saw over the week-end. My new acquaintance has two--but different styles, but they were used on trains for heat in the --maybe last car (furthest away from the steam locomotive)... Really are beautiful castings that still have a glow to their finish--not a spot of rust in sight! Argh right! Just seeing them makes a person appreciate good craftsmanship!

Back to Utah! I made a stupid comment some months back about once an oven is half finished or finished enough to burn wood......all the original incentive to build becomes lost because you can begin to appreciate what an oven can do!!! Mine has sat for 6 months in the same spot! The cracks in the insulation layer become larger--but the oven is crackles! Have to get around to finishing it -- But what is the incentive when on your day off you want to make pizza, bread, steak, fish, vegetables, cookies, snacks .......then you have no ambition to get your fingers dirty with another insulation layer, or plaster coat or even build the base!

Back to novel writing........

Have you gotten started on the copper yet?
I really think that you need to do everything twice. Galvanized .035 metal is dirt cheap! You could do a mock up in galva then when you have all the confidence built up to tackle copper--you will have confidence AND ability because of your experience with the galva.

We have a bumper crop of tomatoes, don't know the names but they are an oval shaped fruit tomato--just pop them in your mouth. We put ones slice in half on top of pizzas and they were great! We also have some large like (2" to 2 1/2" diameter) that are firm and tasty. Looks like a bumper crop of squash--every day there are more flowers that have succeeded in being germinated! The cucumbers look like logs, because we cannot keep up with picking or consuming them----even the neighbor is getting a little tired of cukes!

That's it from the far side of the world! The side that is dark when you are light--half ahead---SO, lets see some pictures of your FRENCH Bread!

[UtahBeehiver]

Re: Structural Slab for new WFO

Mikku,

I have to say my first attempt of bread making was not stellar. Actually a little shy in posting my first try at bread. Edible and such but just can't hold a candle to pics I have seen by pro bread makers on the forum. Will try again in a couple weeks when I have the neighborhood pizza party. I did cut out some blank galvanize sheets from an old scrounged duct work to start my self taught training session on metal forming. Just need to get with it. Seems everyone's garden is having bumper crops except me

[mikku]

Re: Structural Slab for new WFO

Russell- don't be disappointed, my wife has baked bread for 40 years --first time was when we were first married and I wanted to show off that she could do as good as Mama! But Mama used short cuts for rolls like using frozen bread. My wife and I practiced many ---many times in making cressant rolls and when she had the technique down pat, we made them for Thanksgiving---that was maybe 1972..... It is funny how out of necessity to succeed, a great hobby is formed. The trouble is--in 1972, I was 5-11, 174#, a lot of muscle from running and being a USMarine. I blame my big belly on her good baking............But that is 41 years of baking and every time it gets better!

Sheetmetal should be available in 4x8 sheets USA, we have 3x6x.035 selling for about $4.00/sheet. If you have a brake, that is all you need besides a couple of good snips and those hand thing-a-ma-doos for bending sheetmetal by hand. You have chosed something that makes a professional with a lifetime of sheetmetal work either cringe or smile in delight. It all depends on the demeanor of the worker. If tough is a challenge---then a smile. if tough is a headache, then upside down smile for even a trained super craftsman. So Russell really take your time, learn the techniques, then do the best you can!!!!!!!!!!!it will be better than the best craftsmen out there because you are doing it with more incentive than most have---The incentive to do something that most persons call impossible!

As for the garden, my wife puts many hours each day into taking care of the plants that she grows. I think she spends way toooooooo much time with her hobby. You cannot find a weed anywhere, and the soil is turned over multiple times a week, if it needs it or not! The soil here is fertile, and black; she tests it continuously and adds whatever is necessary to meet the growing requirements of each plant!

We also have ample amounts of rain, sunny days and cool nights. All great growing conditions for just about anything! It is not the tropics but sometimes we have tropical weather. Hang in there!

Really I think you should work on a roof enclosure to cover your entire oven and preparation areas. If that was completed during these hot months, and your oven could be either moved or surrounded by this structure, then you could use a portable heater and shop lights to work on your oven----no matter the time of year or weather conditions.

I'm on my 4th evening tranquilizer so forgive the rambling. Keep the pictures coming!

Mikku

[Laurentius]

Re: Structural Slab for new WFO

Hi Mikku,

The cookies are fantastic, your wife is a much better baker than I. I had to skip lunch yesterday because of too many cookies and milk. No, to baskets. The wish list is difficult for me, I've spent the last 30 years trying not to want things that are not related to or enhance my creativity. I'm drawn to things that I feel the passion of the maker and their pride in the finished item.
I will think about it and if you see anything that you think has my name on it, get it for me, please.

[mikku]

Re: Structural Slab for new WFO

Yesterday was the first day that my wife took care of the oven herself.
I started it and showed her the technique of kindling pile--start in transition--then push to rear once it starts to burn! works like a charm, I loaded it up once before leaving for work and instructed her to add 4 or 5 pieces of oak two more times, then let the fire burn down. Told her to put the insulated door on when the burn was complete. In the evening the internal temp was around 350C after 7 hours of sitting idle. 5:30 the next morning it sat at 260C, a temp she can begin to bake anything.

she made several batches of cookies, and some bread during the day. Everything turned out great---she has patience with baking only! No patience with me! some of her product got mailed out to friends, other got put into the freezer to retain freshness. Now when I want an evening snack, I have to chew on an frozen cookie!

Life if tough!

[texman]

Re: Structural Slab for new WFO

Getting the wife to work the oven-now there is an idea!

Sounds like good times across the pond.

Texman

[mikku]

Re: Structural Slab for new WFO

When I first thought of a WFO, it was because people in the past baked that way! And always things from a long time ago--I remember as being superior in flavor--really something to remember.

My wife has baked great things for 42 years next month. As much an expert as there can be. But she saw this as another one of my stupid hobbies, like motorcycles, scuba diving, sports car restoration, collecting antiques which she calls junk, selling our home in the USA and moving to Japan--as an adventure--trying to keep from getting old!

But gradually she has seen how this stupid hobby of mine produces some good things--even if it has been "MY AMATEUR" attempts at doing things. Once she gets the hang of it---their might be a little harmony in the house. And once the oven gets onto a stand instead of being at ground level, things should improve.

Yep! It takes a lot of planning to coax her to try my toy oven! Now she is talking about it being indoors! That is on my list already!

If you need testimonials of the baking skills, just ask my neighbors near and far! Some of the goods get UPS'd to distant locations!

[mikku]

Re: Structural Slab for new WFO

now here is a question for people like Brickie of Oz and David S or Stonecutter or a multiple of experts out there. The ones listed above I have the utmost of respect for their opinions--also Lawrence! Forgot to mention you -- my every day mentor!

Now I have to think about this topic. The oven is cured, but it does not have a final render coat or anything to make the oven waterproof or water resistant--if there is a difference.

My oven heats up very quickly, but it looses heat equally quickly! If you have been following my thread, I have at least 4" of pericrete surrounding my entire dome.

The pericrete has cracked, so what--the castable has not! But where the cracks are, there are hot spots. Hot enough to make you pull your hand away because it is too hot! Other locations are cool, like around the insulated chimney.

I am thinking about adding a layer or two of ceramic fiber to the outside of my render, then apply chicken wire and another coat of render!

Anyone see any problem with this idea? As long as the oven is insulated, the location of the insulation in the assembly is irrelevant--- RIGHT? Please, please correct me if I am wrong! If I add two layers of 1" thickness ceramic fiber to the outside of my --now half complete render coat, it should help retain heat longer--even though it is not the closest insulation in the total assembly!

My other alternative is to simply give up on the dome type oven style, make a box...out of light weight steel studding materials, cover the box with metal or concrete board or anything ---fill the cavity with vermiculite loose fill , install a sloped roof---make sure everything is water proof and call it good!

I'm tossing a lot of ideas around in my mind---I am really thinking about making a modular barrel type--like Brickie has but in castable-- make it larger to accommodate more bread making--and try some other options! This hole topic makes my mind go wild--anything is possible but I do not want a whole bunch of half finished ovens around my house! Maybe sell the one that I have and make a modular barrel--much larger!

My mind keeps wandering to different possibilities. How about some feedback on what to do with my current cast oven

This is a tough question--my present oven is not expensive by any means! it is labor intensive in the mold making area--but other things are really very cheap!

Brickie --what do you think? you had an oven that you tore back and rebuilt, if you were in my situation what would you do? Sell what you have and start a new design OR improve on the current design?

Davids- you have a very long time experience with castable ovens--make them every month........instead of a dome, what do you think of a barrel type like our friend in Canada made?

laurentius, I already have your thoughts but you can add to them as you wish!

I have a few days off--like "3" before starting a new project! I have a little time to think about alternatives. So please give me your honest
assessment!

That is it from this side of the planet--pray for peace during these crazy times in world politics!

[stonecutter]

Re: Structural Slab for new WFO

It seems like your only issue is the insulation layer, so tearing the oven apart doesn't make sense.

If it was me, I would remove the perlcrete and wrap the oven with ceramic, cover that with a new layer of perlcrete, then apply the stucco.

[david s]

Re: Structural Slab for new WFO

Putting blanket over the top of vermiculite is a bit topsey turvey. There is not much heat left by the time it has reached the outside of the vermicrete. You really want your top quality, expensive blanket insulation next to your refractory. I'd be stuffing up any cracks in the vermicrete with more vermicrete. Your second idea of building a dog kennel over the thing may be a good solution, but I'd still fill up any cracks with vermicrete first. I've not built a barrel oven, but they are more suited to cooking lots of bread if that's your intention. Their rectangular shape allows you to maximize the floor area, when loading lots of loaves. We only cook a few loaves at time, (how much bread can a family eat) so our little oven is quite adequate. I only fire the oven for one hour of flame to do bread and it is therefore not properly soaked with heat, but it's enough to do a few loaves and uses hardly any fuel.

[mikku]

Re: Structural Slab for new WFO

Thank you stonecutter!
But why remove anything?
IMHO, insulation is insulation no matter where in the assembly!
Is it going to improve anything by removing something and then adding again?
Why not just add to the outside and call it good?
Please give me your justrification for the response!
Your opinion is always appreciated to the utmost!
Mikku

[mikku]

Re: Structural Slab for new WFO

Davids,
The few times I have had pizza parties with neighbors and acquaintances they have asked about making pizza on a regular basis for sale. But we have had bread available for their sampling as well and they really like the sourbread that I made "first time" under guidance of "Laurience teacher" and they like this other Finnish rye bread as well....nothing like it in Japan anywhere except if special ordered from Laurence! so I am in a funny situation---I am looking for a way of producing income as I age---and taking advantage of the good tasting pizza and sourbread recipes that I currently have in my arsenal... Pizza making on Saturday and Sundays... specialty breads during the week. Gotta make a living when you get old and do not want to drive 1 1/2 hours each way to get to jobsites! Just thinking ahead now---way too late to make a difference! Should have been thinking about this situation when I was 30--not nearly 65!

[david s]

Re: Structural Slab for new WFO

Build a big oven then and you can spend lots of time cutting and splitting wood to keep you fit in old age.