High Heat Mortar Primer

[cecilB]

Re: High Heat Mortar Primer

Ah thanks! That makes sense to me.
I'm still waiting to find out about getting a 50# bag -
What about lime - is that something that Lowes or Home Depot would carry? Because it seems like they don't carry much of anything except the basics! I don't even think they carry very fine sand!
c

[dmun]

Re: High Heat Mortar Primer

Do you know what the difference is between the meshes? 35 or 50?

My guess is that, like abrasives, the higher the number the finer the grain. A google search of "clay mesh" returned kaolin at 200 and 325 mesh, but kaolin is a super-fine porcelain clay.

And how do they price it? Per ounce or per pound?

Usually fireclay comes in a fifty pound bag.

[cecilB]

Re: High Heat Mortar Primer

the reason why I ask about pricing is because it's listed for $.24 - at the most. I'm pretty sure a 50# bag isn't 24cents! ha!
Anyway, if I don't get a reply from them, I will have to break down and call. ugh.
cecelia

[david s]

Re: High Heat Mortar Primer

If you are mixing the fireclay with sand anyway, then the coarser fire clay should be perfectly adequate.

[Lars]

Re: High Heat Mortar Primer

Cecilia,

I think I paid about $20 for a 90lb bag. If you are in KS, you can buy direct, right?

Lars.

[cecilB]

Re: High Heat Mortar Primer

Lars,
I got a 100# bag of fireclay today from Lawrence - 22 bucks! It's the 35 mesh.

Now...where can I get lime?
And what about sand - what exactly do you mean by fine sand ?- could that be playground sand? I have a bag of sand from Capital Concrete and it's fine...but not as fine as I remember the sand on the beaches in Florida!

Also, the lady at the place in Lawrence said they sell silica in bags but that it's expensive - I should have asked her how much...but, oh well. She said "playground sand" should be fine enough.

What do you think?

I also got the "manual" brick cutter from harbor frieght today. Can't wait to see how that goes!

Cecelia

[Lars]

Re: High Heat Mortar Primer

No Playground sand...
Get the fine white sand. At Home Depot they sell it for about $4 a bag, but you can buy it just about anywhere ( lowes, etc.)

Lime, too. Most of the big box stores have lime in about 100lb. bags.
Get yourself a 90lb bag of portland and you're pretty much there.

You mean a chisel? ( manual brick cutter?)
Great deal on the clay. I chipped off some mortar right in the doorway of my oven that has taken the most heat, and it was very brittle, but solid. I assume the mortar in all the joints are that way. Which tells me the blobs inbetween areas that were somewhat inelegantly applied will probably be fine for many years.

The fine white sand is extremely smooth and tiny.... like they used to use in ashtrays. ( if you are old enough to remember) ...not playground and not all-purpose sand...

It costs a little more, but it is the only way to go.

L.

[cecilB]

Re: High Heat Mortar Primer

That's funny - I vaguely remember the ashtrays - weren't they good for using in the car?


The brick cutter is from Harbor Freight - it can be set to cut at angles. If you go to their website that's one of the things that comes up when you search for brick cutters.

Lowe's doesn't carry lime...I'll try home depot.

And the sand from Capital Concrete is not whitish at all. It reminds me playground sand. I'll look for finer stuff.

I think I have decided to remove the old bricks -the bottom layer laid for extra thermal mass - and just do the nice smooth new ones in a single layer for the floor and be done with it. I can't wait to start building!

Cecelia

[Lars]

Re: High Heat Mortar Primer

Sometimes when I need something like lime, I find it at the local concrete supplier or block/brick yard. I thought I bought lime at Lowes, but I could be mistaken. You don't add that much, so a bag lasts a LONG time.

The ashtrays at the Flamingo Resort in Cancun had the white fine sand, but that probably came right off the beach! They used to make amazing zen garden like designs when they would empty them out. Silica sand is probably what it is called. Very fine. You need that so a pepple or oversized grain doesn't interfere with those close joints between the firebricks in the chains of the dome.

Whereabouts in KS are you?

Lars.

[cecilB]

Re: High Heat Mortar Primer

Yeah, the lady (Anne Bracker?) at Bracker's in Lawrence - it's right on highway24 just north of I-70 -made it sound like I didn't need the silica - she was more interested in showing me her building of her kiln - which I admit is very interesting - but not much interested in her customer's project! Whatever! Her kiln building was really neat - hooked up to gas...and able to bear temperatures in the 2500 degrees, or higher. And it's walk-in!
Makes the building of a wood fired brick oven seem .... piddely!
ANYWAY....

I'm in St. Mary's - about 45 minutes west of Lawrence -
Our town has a (very small) Farmers' Market where a lot of Saturdays I sell my bread. It has become the summer project to fund the supplies for the Brick Oven - but I'm starting to think it will become the year-round project to make it possible to renovate the kitchen, etc....(and put a brick oven in it!)


Cecelia

[Lars]

Re: High Heat Mortar Primer

Hey C.
I am trying to get a sourdough starter going. The crusts I have been coming up with are okay, but I wanted something with a little more flavor. Gosh, I only had one decent rise out of the stuff and it has been about a week!

I did make a pizza on it last saturday and... well, amazingly, the kids all liked it better than the plain white pizza crust on the other four.

L.

[cecilB]

Re: High Heat Mortar Primer

I LOVE talking about the sourdough - and pizza making!

The sourdough I make is the Desem from Laurel's Bread Book and Thom Leonard's Bread Book.
I've had it going for 5 years now! The thing is is that it's something that I have really had to work at and it's been an ongoing learning experience.

Do you have either one of those books? I can give the instructions, but it's not really a recipe. But what is in the back of mind is ....How will it be when I can use the brick oven? I'm kind of nervous.

Do you use steam in the first part of the baking? I used to bake my loaves in terra cotta bakers - you know, the cloche or rommeltopf bakers - I could only do four huge loaves at a time. Now I have finally gotten the courage to use a cloth and "couch" the loaves and flip them over, slash them, and put them on a preheated stone - that's been heated for an hour at least at 450. I can do three loaves instead of two on a stone. I put a sheet pan either on the top rack or the very bottom rack - it stays there all the time - and when I put the loaves in, I pour water on the pan. Things I have learned: Use hot water...try not to get the water on the glass window - Both of my oven windows are cracked! (one's a junk oven on the back porch so it doesn't really matter...but the other one....oh dear!) I think if the water were boiling hot, the glass may not have cracked.
ANYWAY, I grind my own grains - wheat or spelt...or rye...and the spelt makes the best Desem. Today I've made three spelts and three mostly whites.
But I make french bread that's pretty awesome, and a loaf that's called bloomer - it's a British type of French bread with poppy seeds all over...
I also do regular loaves that are not artisan, but good for peanut butter and jelly sandwiches and old people who don't get into the "real" stuff!

and pizza - I used to stick to the Bread Bakers Apprentice directions, very good - easy, too, when it's all made the day before....it's just having these darned ovens heating up all the time - I can't wait for my brick oven!!!! - but I got a really good pizza dough recipe out of Saveur magazine or La Cucina Italiana or something....from Naples, they say. It's not as hydrated as Reinharts, and there's very very little yeast....just nice long cool rising times! It's the best, so far - but will be better once we can use the Brick oven!

Anyway...

Hey - the lime - a good friend stopped by today after he was at our local lumber yard - he brought me a sack of ....LIME!!!!
Wow! Right here in little ol' St. Mary's! Whoda ever thought?!?!?
So, now I just need the silica!


cecelia

[Lars]

Re: High Heat Mortar Primer

Cecilia,
I am looking at a large bowl with a wet blob of (not yet) dough. It has been bubbling a bit, but mostly tiny, bubble gum type bubbles for the 12 hours.

Supposedly, I will mix a few more cups of flour in there and let it rise for 2.5 hrs. Rise, mind you. I have a feeling it will just sit there and sneer at me.

Anyway, my starters kind of smell like feet. I don't mean feet that have recently been washed. It tried one with wheat flour, and one with bread flour. The one time I tried this, oh, perhaps 15 years ago or more, I don't recall quite so pungent a smell. And, I did lose interest because the bread ( while it rose well) was not too different from my regular white bread.

Do you grow your own grain? I have wondered how much space I would have to devote to wheat to have enough to make bread for my family each year. Sowing, harvesting, grinding, we sure have learned how to divide the essential tasks of survival to the point that it is almost alien to the average person.

Lars.

[rockstarmasonry]

Re: High Heat Mortar Primer

When using calcium aluminate cement I found that adding lime in the mix made the mixture "go off" really quickly. On researching this I found, from the manufacturers (can't remember which one) that they said "do not add lime as it acts as an accellerant, which is exactly what I had found. Do not add lime if you want to keep it workable for a reasonable period (eg 1/2 - 3/4 hr or so) .The calcium aluminate cement is very temp dependant. Use chilled water if using on a hot day and don't leave the stuff in the sun to get hot.

How long does it take to set up completely in rainy weather?

[david s]

Re: High Heat Mortar Primer

It is not so much the moisture in the air, but the temp which is the controlling factor. Where I live our temps are high and I usually have to use chilled water to try to slow the stuff "going off", but in our winter it is much slower. On a normal day it sets hard enough to remove from the mould in 24 Hrs. Suggest you mix a little up and let it set and see how long it takes. You do not have to cure it by keeping it moist for a week like portland cement. It is expensive stuff, you dont want to have half a wheelbarrowful wasted. I don't mix up more than one 25 Kg bag at a time. Hope this helps.
Dave