PC's 42" Build

[Pizza Common Sewer]

Hi all,

I am new here again, as I was previously a member. I had planned on building my dream WFO about 4 yrs ago but then decided to sell my former house and build a new one. Well I did that, began building in Aug. of '08 and moved into new home in April of '09. Well since then I managed to sell the other house and get settled in the new house and finish the front landscaping and some other projects. Now it's finally time to do the back landscaping beginning with my WFO as the anchor point.

I've decided on a 42" Pompeii in a corner install. This oven will be part of a corner kitchen with counter tops to the left and right in a "L" shape. I plan on incorporating a sink and 30"-36" grill too. In the end I plan to have a pergola type structure encompassing the outdoor cooking area. The oven's exterior will be finished off in multi-color slate tile with some black slate tile accents and a black slate tile shelf / ledge.

I've read through the Forno Bravo Plans a couple of times and still have some confusion about some aspects of the build. However, I am both excited to get started and dreading it at the same time. I'm very creative and quite handy so I'm up to the task of doing the job / work, but I do think it will take longer than I estimate?..doesn't stuff like this always take longer than planned? I hope to get it done as quickly as possible because I am an absolute pizza fiend (a Pizza Connoisseur ) but since I will eat pretty much any red sauced pizza I think of myself as a Pizza Common Sewer LOL.

I tend to be pretty perfectionistic but have decided to make an effort to NOT OVER THINK this oven project. I'm going to worry about being safe, square and level and try my best to keep the interior of the oven looking clean and not worry about the look of the dome's exterior which will get insulated and hidden. I think I am going to shoot for a 17 to 18 inch interior height and if I get off in height maybe I won't exceed 19 inches.

So far I've extended PVC pipe for both water and electrical connections to the outdoor kitchen area and am close to being ready to begin the oven's slab foundation. I am currently trying to finalize the slab dimensions.

I've attached a sketch of the proposed oven and some initial images / diagrams of the back yard area where the oven will go, etc. I suspect this total backyard project will take a good bit of time to complete by the time I build the oven, pergola structure and cabinets, etc. Not to mention the paving / decking and fencing.

If any of you seasoned WFO builders have any suggestions or opinions of what I've got so far it would be appreciated greatly. I hope to pour a slab sometime this month for now I can begin digging.

Thanks in advance for your time and attention.

Bill

[dmun]

Re: PC's 42" Build

Your plan looks good, I'd be a little concerned about clearance to the trees in the corner of the oven. This should work but be sure to keep the branches well trimmed near the flue and have a spark arrestor.

[Pizza Common Sewer]

Re: PC's 42" Build

Dmun,

Thanks for your input. The two smaller trees sort of in the foreground are where the oven will sit and they will be cut. After they are gone I don't think I will have any tree branches over the chimney stack. But I will keep an eye on that as the project progresses.

I've attached a more detailed dimensional diagram for my oven build. The drawing includes some estimated counter space, etc. Right now I'm curious about the size and shape of the oven slab, etc. I'm not sure if this will be quite large enough for the slab pour and the hearth pour. I'm wondering if my diagram would be better suited for the hearth pour and the slab pour be made just a tad bigger than indicated size in the diagram I've attached. Not to mention the shape I've got going on I need to cut across the back of the slab with a 45 degree angle instead of a 90 degree angle to make space for my pergola's vertical back leg. The footer for this vertical post will a separate pour from the slab pour. I'm thinking this will all work but I sure would like some experienced input/opinions on my dimensions here before I frame it up and pour.

In the diagram 1 grid square equals 6 inches, 2 squares is 1 foot.

Thanks!!!!

Bill

[SableSprings]

Re: PC's 42" Build

Welcome back Bill and congrats on getting back on track with the oven. My two thoughts/comments on your plan are #1) the wood storage for a 42" oven. I opted for wood storage in movable carts in side bays of my corner install, but at least think about having to bring in significant amounts of wood to do the firing for a good sized oven like yours (and to keep it going during the cooking-you don't want to be hauling in wood during a party). The area you have indicated for wood storage won't be very large or accessible-think reaching back, hunched over, dragging wood out from a dark space...the first pieces are easy, then...

Thought #2) I put an open patio around my oven and didn't leave enough space between the insulated enclosure and the back corner walls of the building. It was fine until I put on the finishing pieces of plywood for walls inside and all of a sudden I couldn't squeeze back behind the oven. Just something to think about before you set any structure posts in place along side of the pad...

I've got a series of photos of my corner build, enclosure, and patio in the picture gallery (The Dragonfly Den - posted by SableSprings) and on my web site that might give you some other ideas (or at least a good laugh).

[Pizza Common Sewer]

Re: PC's 42" Build

Thanks for the "welcome" and for the reply. About the storage of wood. Yeah, the opening in my first conceptual drawing of the oven exterior is somewhat small. Since then, in my recent dimensional plan I have increased the width of the oven from 26" to 36" which will expand the opening by another 10 inches. I suppose I can also raise the height of the wood storage opening to include the lower shelf area and then create the shelf I want in the area marked "second shelf?" on the drawing thereby adding another 12" inches in height to the wood area. That would create an opening somewhere around 33" wide by 35" tall. Better? I have other wood storage for the fireplace not too far away. But I agree going after wood during a party would not be desirable.

About the structural element behind the oven I won't even begin putting any structure up around the oven until the oven is completely done. My plan is to do the project in phases with the oven first and building out from there. I hope to do the oven completely then put the cedar pergola structure up, then add the counter areas to the left and right of the oven. I don't think my access to the back of the oven will be blocked (unless I am not yet seeing a potential problem), I'm not going to be building up to our property line and with the upright pergola member going in after the oven is done I should be good.....I think.

Do you think the dimensions of the pad in my drawing are ok for this size oven? Or should the size indicated be best for the hearth area slab and the foundation slab be a bit bigger. I don't see a need for a ledge around the base of the oven when I am done.....but maybe i am mistaken?

Thanks!!!

Bill

[dmun]

Re: PC's 42" Build

The dimensions look fine to me: You've put a lot more thought in in than my quick glance, though. It looks like there's plenty of room for insulation, and that's the main thing.

[SableSprings]

Re: PC's 42" Build

Do you think the dimensions of the pad in my drawing are ok for this size oven? Or should the size indicated be best for the hearth area slab and the foundation slab be a bit bigger. I don't see a need for a ledge around the base of the oven when I am done.....but maybe i am mistaken?

In looking at the latest sketch, it appears that you are going to have about 6" from the dome base to the edge of the top slab at a couple of places. I had left about this much as well, but after I added the insulation, my outer enclosure was right on the edge...not what I'd planned. Right now I only see the inner dome of the oven on your drawing-no insulation or enclosure...you're going to want to do something to cover the ceramic insulating blankets. I think you will need a little more top slab width/depth in order to have insulation and an enclosure.

Also looking at the corner posts, I see that you will not be able to put any siding on the inside to finish...again, this was my mistake. (I know you are planning a pergola, which by definition is open-but if in the future you decide to enclose it you might have problems.) I set my posts around the perimeter of my concrete floor, put plywood on the outside of the posts, and then when I started to put plywood on the inside after I'd finished my oven enclosure...I discovered it was too tight to get my impact drill into position to secure the plywood...and there wasn't even enough space left for me to send in a neighborhood kid to do it for me.

If you are not going to wall/screen up the outer structure, then no problem...I just wanted to wall/screen everything to keep the yellow jackets, mosquitoes, and flies outside as much as possible so I could enjoy my pizza.

p.s. I'm happy you made your wood storage area a bit bigger...I'm betting you'll be glad you did.

[Pizza Common Sewer]

Re: PC's 42" Build

Hey,

It's probably not very clear but the last (detailed ) sketch shows the dome as having a 57" exterior (42" interior diameter + 9" for brick dome walls + 6" insulation). The estimated six inches surrounding the dome sketch is after my allowance for insulation. So I'm figuring 4" for the metal stud walls that will be composed of the studs, concrete backer board, and slate tile exterior leaving me with about 2" of space between metal studs and ceramic insulation for the vermiculite insulation to fall down into. I'm thinking that should be enough.....correct?

About closing in the pergola structure....I'm in Texas and I've never seen a closed in outdoor kitchen yet, if we did close it we'd probably have to add air conditioning! We do get some mosquitoes but it's rarely a big problem. I'm hoping in the end the pergola gets to remain three legged and is very open toward the house. I do plan on some type of barrier fence/wall behind the grill side of the pergola to add a tad of privacy on that side (have a neighboring house over there). The third side of the kitchen, by the sink faces, North and there is nothing back there but 2 acres of mature woods that I own. I love those woods as the backdrop of my house and plan on gently incorporating them into my outside entertainment area. I've got some big ideas for my back yard the WFO is step one in a big list of things to do.

I can't tell you how much I appreciate you looking at my ideas and looking for potential problems, etc. I think it's important to have other input and outside evaluation to help avoid problems both big and small.

By the way how much space between the back of the finished oven wall and that pergola leg would be adequate if I were needing to be able to nail plywood or similar to it? 6-8" minimum?


Bill

[SableSprings]

Re: PC's 42" Build

... So I'm figuring 4" for the metal stud walls that will be composed of the studs, concrete backer board, and slate tile exterior leaving me with about 2" of space between metal studs and ceramic insulation for the vermiculite insulation to fall down into. I'm thinking that should be enough.....correct?

... By the way how much space between the back of the finished oven wall and that pergola leg would be adequate if I were needing to be able to nail plywood or similar to it? 6-8" minimum?


Bill

From everything I've read here, 2" vermiculite with the ceramic blanket insulation will be good on the sides...and obviously with the dome shape inside a rectangular enclosure you'll have even more than 2" in the majority of the area.

As to the pergola leg spacing from the finished oven wall, what I found as a limit was the actual size of my drill + the length of the screw. I couldn't physically put a screw on the bit and get my drill in position to drive it home. If I had to do it over again, I'd look at how tight a space I could fit into and what was the minimum space I needed (+breathing room) to work with the power tools I have.

Glad to hear that "bugs" & weather aren't a problem there and that you're accenting the oven with the beautiful surroundings instead of hiding behind walls & screens. It doesn't get much better than the perfect pizza baked in your hand-built WFO, your favorite adult beverage, and a fabulous backdrop. Life is good!

[Pizza Common Sewer]

Re: PC's 42" Build

Well I have made some progress:

1. Finalized my oven drawings

2. Bought $136 in supplies for preparing the foundation slab.

3. Staked out my backyard to find my correct starting point. Got into some
fire ants right off the bat while staking and the little turds chewed on my
feet a bit.

4. Built my form

5. Excavated the dirt (by shovel) in the slab area.

Tomorrow I'm borrowing a laser level from my Brother-in-Law so I can
get the oven's foundation at the same height as my back porch slab which is about 30 feet away. I'm hoping to get the plastic, rebar and mesh in place by Friday evening so I can pour concrete this weekend (weather permitting).
I have a buddy who is loaning me a small concrete mixer for a few weeks so I can do my pouring.


I don't have any interesting pics to post just yet.....coming soon though.

Bill

[Pizza Common Sewer]

Re: PC's 42" Build a PRE SLAB POUR ???

Ok...only some minor progress so far, I've had delays because of weather and a need to actually build up to grade under my slab added some extra work. At this moment I have 4000lbs of concrete mix in my garage and I have a form with rebar/mesh and plastic sheeting waiting to be filled. But once again this weekend it's supposed to rain. I'm not griping though because TX really, really needs the rain.

But all this waiting time has made me second guess my work...specifically my back-filling and compacting. So I am wondering if any of you know how I can tell if I've done this critical step correctly or need to change/re-do any of it?

I've backfilled with clay/sand mix which is what was there (but it wasn't enough) so I have added 3/4 inch river rock 9 bags of it, plus 7 bags of "top soil mix" which is a generic flower bed / low spot filling material. I put in an inch or two at a time and tamped it down with my 10lb sledge with a 18" piece of 2x6 attached to it. I put in about 7 total inches. If you look at the pic you will see the sledge/tamper plus you will see my prepped area which has a small added trench for support and three "feet" which are about 10 inches in diameter and they are dug down to undisturbed soil to help add support.

Is what I've done going to by sturdy and not "sink" how does one know if he tamped down the soil enough?

The form currently is full of plastic sheeting and rebar/wire mesh, and is covered to keep the area from getting too washed out with all the forecasted rain said to be coming.

Thanks,

Bill

[Pizza Common Sewer]

Re: PC's 42" Build

The form is a 2x6 which is around 5.5" actually. I'm just worried that the "top soil fill dirt" I used might be too organic or that I didn't tamp it down enough and it causes the slab to sink or get off level later on.

Thanks!

Bill

[ggoose]

Re: PC's 42" Build

Bill,
Does the top soil you added have alot of "bounce"? If it does it is probably the organic material, which will decompose over time and leave voids. If not you are probably fine. The rain shouldn't hurt the excavation and may even help settle it; just let it dry out a bit before you pour. If you are certain you need to back fill, use something like 5/8's minus (5/8ths inch broken stones and smaller, all the way to dust); it packs very well and is a better choice than topsoil. Judging from the image you posted the prep works looks reasonable. Just tamp it down as best you can. If you are still concerned add some extra rebar. Don't be alarmed if you get minor cracking in the slab; concrete cracks. What you want to avoid is cracking, then separating into a larger crack or shifting out of plane.
Good luck,
gene

[Pizza Common Sewer]

Re: PC's 42" Build

Finally made some progress and got the first slab poured! We had a couple big rain events (that we needed badly) that delayed my working but yesterday I poured the slab. This is back breaking work when you are a lone man and it was nearly 100 deg F yestarday. Anyhow I ended up beefing up my slab's structure after my previously posted concerns. I ended up putting in more footers, one long deep one across the entire back of the slab and two more 10" diameter one's around the area that will support the oven. I also added 30+ feet more 1/2 inch rebar to the metal structure within the slab. One more reinforcement I did was to add 3 additional pounds of portland cement to each sack of cement mix I used. Yesterday's pour took thirty one 80 pound bags of cement mix and about 100 pounds of portland cement. I knocked the form off late last night and this morning I went and checked its status it is quite solid and perfectly level. Now I can begin forming up my two connecting slabs for my outdoor kitchen's counter areas to the left and right of the WFO oven slab. If you all check the pictures you can see my rebar extensions that will tie my slabs together. Once these slabs are in place and I've put my fire-pit's base structure in place I am calling in a concrete guy to pour my entire patio area in concrete which will tie it all together and give me a nice hard surface to work on. He will pour the patio up to and around all of the structures I am building. I'm not attempting to pour my patio area myself it's 1200 square feet in area and it's a job best left to a seasoned cement professional. As it stands I've got plenty of work to do ahead of me building the oven, and an entire attached outdoor kitchen, some privacy fencing, wood decking and related landscaping.

Anyhow I've attached a couple of pics of the slab that I took this morning. I'm headed out to begin work today.....there's so much to do!!!

Bill

[ggoose]

Re: PC's 42" Build

Looking good Bill. Hopefully it will rain a bit more - you guys need it, plus it will help cure your concrete
gene