Under way in Socal

[cnicholson]

Re: Under way in Socal

Ahhh...ok making a bit more sense now. The idea is to complete the dome with an inner arch and then construct a vent arch outside of that. I was getting a bit confused reading so many posts and so many ideas swirling around in my head. Many thanks to you Russell for the pic..it truly was worth a thousand or so words. I too find that GF's build is among the top 5 on this forum and his words of wisdom have already saved me probably weeks of undoing something!

How much of a heatbreak do you think would be necessary using the rope/caulk method? I looked online for ceramic rope and it looks like they even have a square braided variety. Looking at that I'm almost thing cutting the break down to 1/4", especially on the floor.

Also I am assuming that the door seals COMPLETELY inside the inner arch and the sole function of building the outer arches/vent landing is to support the chimney?

[GianniFocaccia]

Re: Under way in Socal

TScarborough says a 1/4" break is all that is needed. I may go a little more in order to get the braided rope into it. The door should have an outer flange on it that rests directly against the reveal (there's lotsa pics of doors floating around here). Other benefits of an entryway are to protect the oven against wind and to provide a holding/warming area for food.

[UtahBeehiver]

Re: Under way in Socal

CN,

Going to butt in again, here is my floor thermal break, I used a piece of 316 SS tubing I acquired from a scrap yard. Another idea I thugged from GF. It is just another way to skin the cat. There are many other examples out there too.

[Derkp]

Re: Under way in Socal

Those firebrick sure do look familiar...

[billwil]

Re: Under way in Socal

Hi Bill.. got the splits as seconds from Pacific Clay in Lake Elsinore, $.25 per brick so I couldn't go wrong! If you need to borrow a tile saw let me know..I bought a very used MK101 off craigslist and, long story short, don't think I would want to sell it to someone but it cuts the heck outta these bricks... I do need to tile a shower ceiling after this but I should be done with it in a month or so (I better be anyways!!)

Know the feeling of the whole backyard...mine is a project 10 yrs in the making... I finally admitted defeat a month ago and hired a gardener!

Great price on the brick. I called them today actually and they said they have some full brick seconds for .38 per brick or so. Might have to get a pile of 'em.

I also may take you up on your saw offer. I was planning on getting the HF 10", but if yours is better and you're willing...I could just buy a couple of blades. I'd rather not store the thing afterwards, anyway (these California houses are small ), so would probably just end up selling it anyway.

One question...I've done some research on the various brick types, but was wondering if you guys see any drawbacks to using the pacific clay bricks compared to a true light-medium duty refractory brick from ANH or Whitacre Greer, etc. Thoughts? I'm quite sure I'll end up using something from Pacific Clay as so many people have good luck with them, it's close by and plentiful, and the price is right...but just curious.

BTW...any progress? 29 days and counting.

Thanks.
Bill~

[cnicholson]

Re: Under way in Socal

Well Bill I wouldn't say that the saw is "better" than the HF...I didn't know too much about tile saws except that I had used one of these before and I know some tile guys that swear by them so I bought it well used off a guy on craigslist...and the dreaded "caveat emptor" reared its head. He did give me (2) hot dog blades ((1) brand new, (1) 3/4 life left) and (1) beater blade and the saw works BUT the way these saws are made there is a lot of cast aluminum meeting up with steel, and given the wet environment they are used in you need to almost maintain them like a boat...which this one was not. So the cutting head does not pivot up and down, it's almost impossible to check belt tension, the scale on the tray is useless because the head cant be adjusted and the nature of the beast (pun intended) with these are they weigh about 120lbs and are LOUD. I've tried just about everything to get it to break the galvanic bond and pivot (heat, penetrating lubes, hammer) and I actually broke the handle of the casting trying to get it to move. That's why I say it's a long story but I wouldn't want to sell it to someone under those conditions- not to mention I would think it's value might be a tinge hindered by the aforementioned flaws and I would almost just rather throw it in the garage and have it around for projects here and there.

On the plus side the tray slides real nice and it seems to have adequate power (it takes about 30 sec to cut a brick). I just wouldn't plan on doing a Les type build under those conditions.

On the firebricks- I have no doubt I'm going to love how the dome comes out with the splits, however, I'm not sure if it's an issue with the fact they are seconds or not but the face of them has an extremely grainy texture AND they are not square (at least 25% of them) on the 4 1/2" end. To me, not a big deal because once you cut them in half you'll never see the other end (I'm putting cut end in) and the graininess will actually help mechanically bond the mortar one the dome. That being said I did get a dozen full size, 1st quality brick from RCP to do the first course (to eliminate a floor height seam in the dome) and the 1st quality bricks are smoother and square. In addition, the had another brand of brick, Whitacre, and those bricks were smooth like a pizza stone- a little pricer too.

So to sum up this long story if I had it to do all over again, yes I would go to Pac Clay and get 2nd's for the dome and most likely buy the 1st quality Whitacre bricks for the floor. The cool thing about that Pac Clay yard is it's ALL seconds and CHEAP. If you are looking for other landscape materials or stuff to finish your oven in, it's worth a look around. They guy I dealt with was Mike but they all seem pretty cool up there.

Phew...my fingers are tired

[GianniFocaccia]

Re: Under way in Socal

Hey C-Nick,

I too bought my full-size firebricks from Pacific Clay ($50/pallet!) so the price was right. I ended up facing the cut side of my half-bricks into the dome, as you plan. I didn't pay close attention to the density of the inward-facing cut surface, which on mine, actually has a few pin holes scattered about, most likely because the firing process didn't (doesn't) continue all the way through to the center of the brick. It may not be a factor (especially with splits), but you may want to consider shaving off the opposite (outside) end of your brick halves and face them inward. If I had it to do over again, I would do this.
John

[billwil]

Re: Under way in Socal

That being said I did get a dozen full size, 1st quality brick from RCP to do the first course (to eliminate a floor height seam in the dome) and the 1st quality bricks are smoother and square.

I'm such a noob...but what do you mean by a floor-height seam? I mean, I can gather what a seam at floor height would be...but how are you eliminating one with full size, more squared bricks? Do you mean since your floor will be double split high (i.e. full-size brick height...2.5 inches) that you have to do something different with the first course so it doesn't line up (like a soldier course...but I think I remember you saying that you weren't doing that)?

Trying to understand...Thanks.
Bill~

[cnicholson]

Re: Under way in Socal

GF- It is a pretty sweet deal when they are available..the bad thing is your mind starts thinking "Well, maybe I'll just get another 200 bricks and build a smoker...or???" I do see what you mean w/ the firing process being that I bought 12 regular sized too (see attached- uhhh, didn't know I needed to order my bricks well done!). Do you think that's going to affect anything? Not too sure exactly what is going on there, there are no holes or anything, it just appears to be discoloration.

And your right, no issue with the splits. Now that I'm thinking about it, the 2nds I got may have been overfired and that's why they are grainy?

Bill- you are correct. I am using a full sized brick placed ON TOP of the first layer of splits because I am not using a soldier course (not hearing good things about it, if you look back a few posts GF said he didn't have much luck with them either so I know I'd have some trouble). There was a post on an IT thread where a WFO'er said he had some instances where his peel would catch in the floor to dome seam (no soldier course). This struck a chord with me as I have have that happen with my fireplace and fireplace tools.

[cnicholson]

Re: Under way in Socal

forgot to add the pic

[GianniFocaccia]

Re: Under way in Socal

Do you think that's going to affect anything? Not too sure exactly what is going on there, there are no holes or anything, it just appears to be discoloration

Boy, doesn't that brick look familiar! I don't know (at least not yet) if its going to affect anything. I do know that bricks fire from the outside in and have heard that the perimeter of a brick's material is more refractory than the middle. From the pics below you can see quite an inconsistency in color, which may or may not affect long term performance.

GF- It is a pretty sweet deal when they are available..the bad thing is your mind starts thinking "Well, maybe I'll just get another 200 bricks and build a smoker...or???"

Uh, I bought a second pallet of bricks at the same time as my first pallet, with the idea of a second, smaller (low-dome) dedicated pizza oven as well as a tandoor. Hey, a guy can dream, can't he?

John

[cnicholson]

Re: Under way in Socal

GF- Pretty funny! The ones I bought were first quality so it doesn't look like yours are to "secondy". The splits are uniform throughout so I suspect you are correct that they were fired all the way through.

[cnicholson]

Re: Under way in Socal

Be forewarned...a tile saw cutting firebrick will wake up a baby...that's a very bad thing.

Progress has been a bit slow but I think I finally figured out how to configure my entry and incorporate a heat break. I REALLY don't like the idea of having ceramic rope and silicone around my cooking area so I am going to try this w/o either. I'm going to try the tried and true 1/4" air gap on the vent/entry floor that will fill with ash as time goes by and maybe some type of vermicrete for the arches...worse comes to worse it looks like ceramic rope and hi temp caulk!!!


I cut my inner floor w/ a 1/4"-3/8" expansion gap around the perimeter. My inner arch sleepers are sitting on the 1st layer of splits and the 1st dome course is locking them in. I plan to cut the same recess in the arch bricks.

Hopefully my thought process is correct here- fire bricks are basically fire clay and sand so the leveling bed of fire clay/sand is a form of thermal mass. If I need to use the same leveling medium in between the split layers, I'm OK- it's not going to act as an insulator.

The arches seem to make a little more sense everyday...hopefully that's how Michaelangelo felt as well...

[Dino_Pizza]

Re: Under way in Socal

The arches seem to make a little more sense everyday...hopefully that's how Michaelangelo felt as well...

So true. Same thing happens with the vent opening, the dome closing...etc., Thats what's so nerve wracking and exciting about the entire build.

[cnicholson]

Re: Under way in Socal

Thanks Dino- It's good to hear that legendary WFO'ers such as yourself and Giannni toil over the same stuff I am.. I'm starting to get ahead of myself at this point and found myself looking at mixers on ebay today though...must focus...must focus...