Nathan's 36" SoCal WFO build

[n8huntsman]

Re: Nathan's 36" SoCal WFO build

Just thought I'd post my progress with the model.

[Tonyp]

Re: Nathan's 36" SoCal WFO build

Does anyone taper the wide face of the brick on the dome arch? In other words, when you look at the front of the oven, are the arch bricks sometimes triangular to even the exposed joints? Some appear to but then again, I thought some people did this to the dome bricks so I may be wrong here too.

You can if you like. I did taper my arch bricks so they are narrower on the inside than the outside and the mortar gap is almost straight. The dome arch bricks are a little less than perfect with some slightly different sizes and mortar gap widths. By the time I made the outer arch my skills at brick cutting improved quite a bit and the bricks are much more uniform.

[deejayoh]

Re: Nathan's 36" SoCal WFO build

Nate -

Good on you for trying all this out. And nice drawings too.

FWIW, I worked out all the math in my spreadsheet - it will tell you what the tilt is for each course, from which you can figure out how tall the mortar will be in the back with a little help from our friend Pythagoras

[n8huntsman]

Re: Nathan's 36" SoCal WFO build

Does anyone taper the wide face of the brick on the dome arch? In other words, when you look at the front of the oven, are the arch bricks sometimes triangular to even the exposed joints? Some appear to but then again, I thought some people did this to the dome bricks so I may be wrong here too.

[Greenman]

Re: Nathan's 36" SoCal WFO build

When you place the bricks you see the truth. When you look at the technical drawing you see the theory.

Believe what you see.

[n8huntsman]

Re: Nathan's 36" SoCal WFO build

Am I doing something wrong? The outside gap is measuring almost 3/4" not the 3/8 suggested above...
I don't see anything that could be be wrong so I guess that's just the way it is with a 36" oven. The larger the oven the smaller that gap is.

[Tonyp]

Re: Nathan's 36" SoCal WFO build

I think I have seen one or two with the top and bottom tapered but I didn't bother. It's a lot of extra cutting. Not to mention kind of a pain to cut a thin slice off the wide face of a brick with a 1/16" wet saw blade. They like to deflect out. It will also add a course or two or 3 to your build as you are decreasing the height of each course by tapering top and bottom. If you want, you could add in slivers or wedges of brick on the outside gap to take up some of the space. I just filled em with mortar..

[n8huntsman]

Re: Nathan's 36" SoCal WFO build

A little cleaner on the outside (which you'll never see), a little bit more thermal mass (more brick less mortar, probably not needed for home use), maybe negligibly more evenly distributed heat.... all maybe's and all negligible and probably not needed. I think you've sold me. Anyone else have a contrary opinion?

[deejayoh]

Re: Nathan's 36" SoCal WFO build

I guess cutting all four sides is easy to say for someone who hadn't cut a single brick yet, lol. Now I'm torn. I really want to try it, especially because you say you haven't seen it... but I don't want to back myself into a corner either... decisions decisions.

I am sure others can weigh in - but there's a reason you don't see any 4-sided tapers. The extra two cuts don't provide ANY advantage. The reason for tapering the sides is to get rid of the mortar triangle between the bricks inside the oven. There is no corresponding problem on the top/bottom. The bricks fit flush, every time, all the time. Cutting the top and bottom is a big waste of time and materials, imho.

[n8huntsman]

Re: Nathan's 36" SoCal WFO build

I think finding tapered bricks around here is going to be tough and costly. Plus I am limited on space so it pretty much has to be ?36". I'm gonna model it cut 4 sides and see where it goes from there. I'm sure I'm going to end up redrawing everything anyways. So with that being said here is my floor and first course. Please chime in if I've screwed up anything in the images to follow because I want to make the mistakes here first.
Thanks

[Toomulla]

Re: Nathan's 36" SoCal WFO build

Couple things
1) I don't think it's worth it to taper bricks on all four sides. I don't know of any builders that have tapered top and bottom. Better to do a compound taper on the sides to account for tilt and then just tip the bricks using mortar to support them.
2) as such, mortar thickness won't be even across the brick. Shoot for tight mortar lines at the front - 1/8 is probably reasonable. At the back, you'll have thicker mortar. Maybe 3/8 inch. That's fine. It doesn't hold the bricks together, it holds them apart so that the dome can be structurally sound.

If you purchase tapered bricks and set your oven size to the arch that the taper creates you only have to cut the sides . If you try this don't forget to use a spacer in the joints when you check the arch/ oven radius.

[n8huntsman]

Re: Nathan's 36" SoCal WFO build

I guess cutting all four sides is easy to say for someone who hadn't cut a single brick yet, lol. Now I'm torn. I really want to try it, especially because you say you haven't seen it... but I don't want to back myself into a corner either... decisions decisions.

[deejayoh]

Re: Nathan's 36" SoCal WFO build

Couple things
1) I don't think it's worth it to taper bricks on all four sides. I don't know of any builders that have tapered top and bottom. Better to do a compound taper on the sides to account for tilt and then just tip the bricks using mortar to support them.
2) as such, mortar thickness won't be even across the brick. Shoot for tight mortar lines at the front - 1/8 is probably reasonable. At the back, you'll have thicker mortar. Maybe 3/8 inch. That's fine. It doesn't hold the bricks together, it holds them apart so that the dome can be structurally sound.

[n8huntsman]

Re: Nathan's 36" SoCal WFO build

I can pull the concrete back some. I'm working on a more detailed 3D model now. The original one was simple revolutions. I'm not building one brick by brick. Once I get the arch transition modeled I can see where I'm at on the floor. I'll keep posting my model snapshots to get feedback to hopefully make my mistakes on paper, before cutting and mortaring bricks. Those are harder to fix.

For my model, what do people think is a good mortar thickness to shoot for? I plan on tapering my bricks in the dome on 4 sides, aiming for a uniform mortar joint on 4 sides. I started with 1/8" but after looking at countless builds, it looks like even with the most detail oriented cuts in the brick you still end up with what looks like 1/4". Is that more realistic? I realize it will be next to impossible to built to my model but I want to get as close as possible.

[deejayoh]

Re: Nathan's 36" SoCal WFO build

The floor inside your oven arch gets pretty hot - even with a thermal break. I am skeptical that concrete is going to do well with the heating/cooling cycles. I have the same design - poured concrete counter flush w/oven floor - and used soapstone in the entry. It has held up well. Was a bit tough to source though

As to the bricks, light duty should be fine. That's what I used.