Acoma 42" Tuscan

[RCLake]

Re: Acoma 42" Tuscan

Jim, I finished the cuts for 1/2's for course 7. I angle cut one side, and I will wait to bevel the other until I do my measurements for each piece. After that, more cutting

As for accurate measurements from center point to top of each course brick:

C1- 22.25
C2- 22.50
C3- 23
C4- 23
C5- 22.5
C6- 21.75

C7 on will be more gradual I believe. I will see what consistent height is needed in the backs to get to 20 now.

Robert, if you are using the full height to the brick for each row (no tapering the bottom) How much of a gap do you at the back end of the brick. I've been lifting mine up with either a 1/4" or 3/8" piece of plywood.

[Acoma]

Re: Acoma 42" Tuscan

You don't want to know. Well, I know I will hear plenty but it has been my decision in order to accomplish my end goal.

Done:
C1-solder, no gap
C2-no gap, straight up
C3- .50 inches
C4- 1 1/8th inches
C5- 1 1/8th inches
C6- 1 1/8th inches
To Do:
C7- 1 1/8th inches (this would get me to 21 even)
C8- 1 1/8th inches (this would get me to 20.25)
C9- 1 inch (Goal of 20)
C10- ? (Goal of 20)
C11- ? (Goal of 20)
C12- ? (Goal of 20)
C13- ? (Goal of 20)

Now you know the gaps and goals. Lay it on me I will find out the performance, cracks, success and failures by this. I just like the larger brick look; I don't want the beveled bricks that shorten them.

[RTflorida]

Re: Acoma 42" Tuscan

Hey Robert,
just trying to visualize and certainly not being critical but I have to ask:

The gaps on the outside are actually 1 1/8" between C4, 5 ,6,7,8, and 9???
I didn't realize you were going so steep, your pics don't really show it. Can you post a pic or two of the outside of the dome?
You're really doing excellent work and all looks terrific, but I would be lying if I said I wasn't concerned about those outer gaps (I'm sure you have considered this). You may be venturing into uncharted waters here...I can't remember anyone trying such a steep transition. I hope your mortar holds up....hurry up and finish and fire this puppy up - REALLY curious about these mortar gaps and potential cracking.
Again, I wish you the best with this design, hate to see any issues after all of the tedious planning and meticulous work you have put in.

RT

[gjbingham]

Re: Acoma 42" Tuscan

This is starting to sound like cervical spinal surgery. Way too complicated for me. I'm limited to oral surgery and sloppy dome building.

[RTflorida]

Re: Acoma 42" Tuscan

Truly; please just don't mention L3, L4, and L5 - I'm certain my back will seize up just reading about them.

[jcg31]

Re: Acoma 42" Tuscan

Robert, I share RT's concern, which is why I asked the question a couple nights ago. I am absolutely no expert, but we have plenty here on site. I think you should ask them to weigh in before you go much further. You have been killing yourself and I would hate for you to have to retrace too many of your courses if there is a problem.

I used your measurements to create the attached drawing and then extended what you had done to 20". It just occurs to me that there is going to be a ton (literally) of weight resting on those wide joints. Hope I am wrong.

Jim

[Acoma]

Re: Acoma 42" Tuscan

OK, I share the concerns. The outside dome does not look dramatic, although a picture of the outside of the dome tomorrow will likely help with the visual. I have only been aggressive with course 4,5,6. I have not started 7.

Yes, if experts on the mortar subject can interject, that would be great. I would hope that the hard work is not in vain.

I will also show a sample brick with gap. What I can do is to change the plan from 20 inch goal, and go with tapering the back gap, going from the large back to .75 on the next two courses to .50 for the remaining, or is there a smarter idea.

[RTflorida]

Re: Acoma 42" Tuscan

I can't speak from experience, I kept my gaps at 1/4" or less (nearly all were 1/4") based on concerns others had posted about mortar cracking. Even the best - Refmix and Heatstop 50 don't recommend gaps any larger than that. I just don't know, wish I could help. Hopefully someone who has gone with 1" plus gaps can chime in, maybe all this worry is for nothing. It does have me very curious.

RT

[RTflorida]

Re: Acoma 42" Tuscan

Robert, sent you a message about the wood, hope it helps

[Acoma]

Re: Acoma 42" Tuscan

Jim and RT, look at this photo which shows the gap of the most recent bricks and also shows the arch. If mortar is not an issue, but rather the angles continuing, I would think a solution to the gaps in the back for remaining courses would be greatly appreciated for angles and final internal height.

Please look them over and tell me the true picture of this tale. I do not wish to redo courses, nor do I want a future nightmare. I felt and still believe (now hope from these comments) that those courses with proper future adjustments will provide the proper weight balance, distribution.

[Acoma]

Re: Acoma 42" Tuscan

Here is the photo I mentioned, where you can see the spacing of the back side and a view of the angles being built up. And if I went by your scetch Jim, that would make me nervouse too. I just doesn't look that way. I will definately get a top view photo of the dome too.

[RTflorida]

Re: Acoma 42" Tuscan

Taking the mortar cracking issue out of the equation, maybe one of our resident engineers with a good understanding of thrust angles can comment; Jim's point on how the weight and downward force will be distributed is the more important issue. Come on guys, break out those slide rules and help the man out.

[Acoma]

Re: Acoma 42" Tuscan

Wouldn't more reasonable spacing to finish be ok with 1" cladding as a shell to secure the shape? Throwing ideas, and yes, it would be nice to the the engineering slider rulers out....

[asudavew]

Re: Acoma 42" Tuscan

Wouldn't more reasonable spacing to finish be ok with 1" cladding as a shell to secure the shape? Throwing ideas, and yes, it would be nice to the the engineering slider rulers out....

Don't add the 1 inch cladding.
I wouldn't add a mm if I had a do over on mine.

[Les]

Re: Acoma 42" Tuscan

Dave, without digging through all the post this late - how does your oven hold temps for the next day? Are you able to bake something the next day without a re-fire? I started this endeavor looking to build an Alan Scott, found this site and saw the rational of something less massive. There must be an advantage in between the two (for some). Just my thought.

Les...