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  • #91
    Thanks a lot Neil B.... I now see what you and Mongo are referring to. I was just looking at his post #59, photo on far left and your picture in post #71 on my thread. I am now clear what you're pointing out. As mentioned, I like this approach as it locks in the arch better and from what I gather, this type of approach separates the arch from the cooking floor (if arch is not sitting right on top of cooking floor) in case of expansion. I'm currently looking at the CAD I did and will most likely revise my design. Will keep you posted.... but I appreciate you pointing this all out and sharing your thoughts. Thank you!!
    John

    "Success can be defined as moving from failure to failure without loss of enthusiasm"- Churchill
    ______________
    My Build Album: https://photos.app.goo.gl/mYnNG6wjn3VAUqkK6

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    • #92
      Revised the arch placement design as discussed. Feeling better about this. see attached. I think this new approach will lock the arch in better. Still may revise the floor pattern on the out side of the arch which brings up the heat break issue. Originally planned on no heat break. Reconsidering that.

      Utahbeehiver, if you happen to see this post, can you please tell me what material that steel bar is you used for your heat break in the floor? Do you feel that method worked well as a heat break?
      Thanks very much.
      John

      "Success can be defined as moving from failure to failure without loss of enthusiasm"- Churchill
      ______________
      My Build Album: https://photos.app.goo.gl/mYnNG6wjn3VAUqkK6

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      • #93
        Heat sink (thermal break) for floor just outside inner arch. I was going to embed a stainless square tube in between the bricks of arch and landing. I had seen something similar to what GianniF and UtahBH did. Anyone have any thoughts about whether this is "the right" material to use? Since it's an inch square, I'd kind of suspend it using a piece of leftover CaSi board so it winds up flush with the landing floor surface. I'm not a metalurgist but this material is corrosion resistant so I thought it might work..... just looking for some confirmation if anyone has any thoughts ....Thanks in advance for the help.

        Click image for larger version

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        Last edited by CapePizza; 09-18-2020, 11:34 AM.
        John

        "Success can be defined as moving from failure to failure without loss of enthusiasm"- Churchill
        ______________
        My Build Album: https://photos.app.goo.gl/mYnNG6wjn3VAUqkK6

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        • #94
          That stainless steel tube looks good. Might want to consider filling it with dry vermiculite/perlite.

          that whole deal with arch bricks on the CalSil board... that looks like a lot of hassle with no benefit. If the dome starts expanding different from
          the floor, then that seam will break either way. That’s my 2 cents. I mortared my arch to the floor and I regret it.

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          • #95
            I had thought just leaving it open ... air is a pretty good insulator... .but that's a thought I hadn't considered adding perlite. Will consider that. I did check, that SS tube is food grade so that's good.

            When you say you mortared your arch to the floor and regret it..... is that the cooking floor you're referring to or the CaSi board?
            Thanks
            Last edited by CapePizza; 09-18-2020, 12:52 PM.
            John

            "Success can be defined as moving from failure to failure without loss of enthusiasm"- Churchill
            ______________
            My Build Album: https://photos.app.goo.gl/mYnNG6wjn3VAUqkK6

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            • #96
              The stainless in that position has many advantages. Mostly in terms of appearance and durability. Unfortunately placing a highly conductive material there is totally counter productive if attempting to reduce thermal conductivity. ( check the thermal conductivity between CFB or vermiculite or calsil against stainless steel. If persuing this route the amount of stainless in the space should be minimised. This means using the thinnest pipe you can access or bending up something from nothing thicker than 0.55mm preferably only covering the top surface, not the sides and the bottom, the rest of the space being filled with decent low conductive material.
              Kindled with zeal and fired with passion.

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              • #97
                Thanks for your insights, davids. This piece of ss tubing I was considering is .065 inches material thickness (so around 1/16 inch).... from what you're suggesting.... maybe instead of a tube, maybe just a piece of ss channel, where the top is 1 inch (the part's that's exposed) and the channel sides are minimal, like maybe 1/4 inch. and have that rest (sit on) on CaSi board? If you have another method of creating a heat break there, I'm all ears if you'd like to further share your thoughts. Thanks, I appreciate it.

                I should have mentioned the purpose of the ss tube is not for appearance. I'm just looking for a way to keep from loosing BTUs to the landing.
                Last edited by CapePizza; 09-18-2020, 01:17 PM.
                John

                "Success can be defined as moving from failure to failure without loss of enthusiasm"- Churchill
                ______________
                My Build Album: https://photos.app.goo.gl/mYnNG6wjn3VAUqkK6

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                • #98
                  Yes that’s what I’m suggesting although 1/16” is around 3x thicker than I was suggesting and of course therefore 3x more heat transferred by concuctivity.
                  Kindled with zeal and fired with passion.

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                  • #99
                    I have seen builders cut a triangle piece out of the floor brick that butts up against the dome floor. This minimizes contact between the dome floor brick and vent brick thus reducing thermal transmission. The gap can be left oven, filled with Cermic Fiber blanket or lean p or vcrte. Thermal K values for various materials are Cardon Steel - 30 to 50, SS - 14.4, fire brick - 0.47, CaSi 0.05 So you can seen the SS is quite a bit more thermally conductive than fire brick. I used SS, looks nice but could have gone a more effective route such and the min touching fire brick like I did on dome and vent arch.
                    Russell
                    Google Photo Album [https://photos.google.com/share/AF1Q...JneXVXc3hVNHd3/]

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                    • Thank you all for your comments. As mentioned I had originally thought not incorporating any thermal breaks. Now just giving it a second thought. From what I get from your comments, using a metal break in floor is NOT the way to go. I did find a previous thread from December of 2017 "Heat break. To do or not to do" which I'm still reading and digesting. Seems, in theory at least, just leaving an air space between floor bricks and vent tunnel bricks would provide a break, but then all sorts of "stuff" can fill that space. Or as Russel had seen, just cut an angle on the touching bricks to create an air space (at least that's how interpreting it). I'm thinking something as simple as the attached image. I thought what BAZA did on his floor for a heat break was interesting. I think what I have in the image is probably similar to what he did.
                      The space could be filled with ceramic rope or maybe just leave it open, as air is a pretty good insulator. Any thoughts about that, filling it with rope or just leaving it open? As usual, thank you in advance for any help.

                      EDIT: Found this additional image from a previous post. Also looks interesting.








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                      Last edited by CapePizza; 09-19-2020, 05:52 AM.
                      John

                      "Success can be defined as moving from failure to failure without loss of enthusiasm"- Churchill
                      ______________
                      My Build Album: https://photos.app.goo.gl/mYnNG6wjn3VAUqkK6

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                      • This method looks neat but doesn’t address the need for an expansion joint to prevent cracking from thermal expansion. In practice the gap fills with ash anyhow.
                        Kindled with zeal and fired with passion.

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                        • Still figuring "something" for the floor thermal break/expansion joint. I thought the "V" idea filled with perlite was a good solution but as davids points out, doesn't really address the expansion issue. Quite the conundrum .

                          In the meantime, revised my floor plan and arch placement based on previous posts, revised the brick cuts, added arch base bricks and mortared them in place (images attached). Thank you Neilb and Mongo for pointing out that issue regarding arch placement.

                          Tomorrow looking to cut and mortar in the 1st dome row.

                          John

                          "Success can be defined as moving from failure to failure without loss of enthusiasm"- Churchill
                          ______________
                          My Build Album: https://photos.app.goo.gl/mYnNG6wjn3VAUqkK6

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                          • You can do the v thing and fill it with perlite or blanket, but leave a 1/4” gap at the top for the expansion. That space can be filled with weak vermicrete. I use 6:1 to encapsulate the blanket or perlite. If concerned about the appearance, you can cover the joint with thin stainless.
                            Kindled with zeal and fired with passion.

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                            • davids, thank you for your thought. I actually was thinking along the same lines, (although not leaving so much of a gap) and then just filling that gap with ash. I was thinking there is that gap between the floor and the half header brick row and how that is separated by the cardboard strip which burns out. So why not do something similar between landing floor and oven floor. I'd still do the V cut and fill most of it with pcrete, leaving that space at the top to fill with ash. Thanks again!
                              John

                              "Success can be defined as moving from failure to failure without loss of enthusiasm"- Churchill
                              ______________
                              My Build Album: https://photos.app.goo.gl/mYnNG6wjn3VAUqkK6

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                              • Excellent, I'm excited for you. Can't wait to see your progress really take off now.
                                Last edited by Neil.B; 09-20-2020, 10:44 PM.
                                My 32" oven, grill & smoker build https://community.fornobravo.com/for...oven-and-grill

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