32 Inch Cape Build

[CapePizza]

When putting one row on top of another I've seen others use a brick cut off as a shim (see attached photo which if I remember correctly is from UtahBH build photos). My question is when you go to cement that brick in place do you leave the shim there and kind of cement around it? I'm planning on starting to cement rows today. Thanks.

[UtahBeehiver]

I did not leave shim in, it was for fitting and picture purposes only. Notice that I did full bevel and taper cuts for tight fitting vertical joints. It takes a lot of time and resources plus I was working with super duty 65% Alumina bricks. If I were to do another oven I would not go to this effort, only do a bevel near the interior of the dome to eliminate the inverted "V" joint and let mortar fill in the backside and use my time and resources elsewhere.

[CapePizza]

Thanks Russel for the timely follow up. I am planning on doing the taper but actually still thinking about the bevel, but was unsure about leaving in the shim....so thanks.

[CapePizza]

One other question before I start mixing mortar. I discovered a discussion on the forum from February of 2013 regarding the "home brew" ratios. I was planning on a 3:1:1:1 mix but this discussion made some reasoning for a 6:1:1:1 mix (6 parts sand). Has there been any updated thoughts about what mix ratio should be followed. Thanks!!

[UtahBeehiver]

3,1,1,1 , you need to do at partial bevel on the upper courses to avoid the inverted v

[CapePizza]

Got it! Thanks!

[CapePizza]

Does the base arch brick get mortared to the landing floor (see attached)?

Also, after applying mortar (like when you install a row of dome bricks for instance) is it good to mist the mortar with water until it hardens up..... or just let it be?

Thank you for the help

[Neil.B]

I motared the arch to the insulating base and have the landing separate. The rest of your floor is seperate, is there a reason that your arch isn't...or is that how everyone has done it and I didn't notice?

I've seen some threads where the mortar was used with shims, then the shims broken off when everything was dry. Whoever it was just hit them with a hammer to break the excess off.
I made a slightly dry 3111 mix in small batches and dipped the bricks in water for about 30 seconds. The combination of both allowed the bricks to be laid at an angle without slipping. I think you will need a wetter mix if all your joints are very thin/precise.

[CapePizza]

Arch sits on floor level. My oven floor is same level as landing base. It's all one surface, they are not separate (although I'm still considering adding a thermal break between oven floor and landing).
From looking at other's builds I cannot tell if the arch bricks that start at bottom of arch are mortared to the bricks they sit on (oven floor /landing surface). Any suggestions/help would be appreciated. Thanks!!

[CapePizza]

Think I found answer to my question about mortaring the base bricks of arch to floor. Looking at Karangi Dude's build. I see he mortared his arch's base bricks in place. Really nice mortaring he did on all his brickwork. Photo of his build attached showing what I was looking for.

Further edit: During a bit of insomnia I went and read through all 20 pages of Karangi Dude's build. I just discovered this gentleman and his WFO build documentation. Really incredible, inspiring and educational. To anyone, like myself, just starting their build.......I'd recommend reading it for many valuable nuggets of information. He is also, obviously, a really nice guy.

[Neil.B]

Looking at other builds it looks like if you are building on the cooking floor then the arch is on there too.
If the dome is seperate to the floor then the arch is too. Looking at your diagram #49 and picture #82 you are building your arch directly on the diagnal bricks of the floor, is so you are crossing both types of build.

If you look at the arch bricks in Karangi Dude's they look like they are on the straight line of bricks seperate to the cooking floor, not the diagonal cooking floor.

I might be looking at you build and others wrong and it might not make any difference.

[Karangi Dude]

Hi CapePizza,
Thank you for your kind words, WFO are my passion and I love teaching all things WFO especially how to cook in them, in fact I run classes on WFO and how to cooking in them.
I have built and helped build many ovens, igloo, barrel and pre cast they all work well with there own peculiarities it is a matter of heat management and patience.
It looks like you are moving along well, don't over think it (you can loose to many unnecessary hours of sleep) keep asking questions if you are not sure about something I am sure you will find the answers in the many good threads on here or from some of the older members that have all gone through the same things as you are.
One suggestion I would make is build the dome and the door arch at the same time that way you can make any adjustments as you go
And yes I would mortar that first brick up against the door arch, normally the first course of dome bricks butt up to the door arch then you lay the entrance inside the door arch but because you are building an entrance that flares out it won't matter if that first dome brick sits on top of the hearth
Good luck
Cheers Doug

[mongota]

From looking at other's builds I cannot tell if the arch bricks that start at bottom of arch are mortared to the bricks they sit on (oven floor /landing surface). Any suggestions/help would be appreciated. Thanks!!

In my own build, the first or bottom course of my dome bricks, as well as the first course of my arch bricks, are mortared to the 4" thickness of insulation under the oven. My actual floor bricks, those inside the oven as well as those in the landing, are not mortared to the insulation. They float freely and can be removed if needed.

I noticed in your build picture that your oven floor bricks sit inside of and are independent of your dome perimeter bricks, but your arch is built on top of the landing floor bricks. If you're going to continue with that, then yes, I'd mortar the arch bricks to the landing floor bricks. I would recommend you consider running the arch bricks down to the underfloor insulation, and having the landing floor bricks cut to fit inside the arch bricks, just like you did with your dome.

If you discarded the above for a specific reason, no worries. In the end we all build how we choose.

Wedges. I used offcut brick wedges only during dry layout. Just to see that the brick geometry was correct. Once I started mortaring, I'd schmear a generous wedge-shaped dollop of mortar across the tops of several of the already set bricks, then because the sides of my bricks were tapered, I'd place a thin even skim coat of mortar on the side of the brick in my hand. I'd then use the IT to position the brick being set. While holding the brick firmly in the IT, I'd get the IT/brick in to position, then use the butt end of the trowel handle to tap tap tap the brick down and over, all while the IT was holding the brick at the correct orientation. I'd set several brick, and only then come back and clean up any mortar squeeze out.

FWIW, when setting these bricks, I used a margin trowel. Small, maneuverable, and easy. I'd also use the margin trowel to mix up my small batches of homebrew.

If I was not tapering my brick at all I could see using brick wedges in the backs of the mortared joints, essentially to act as a joint filler. Really large infills of mortar can develops shrinkage cracks as the mortar cures. The brick wedges would prevent that possibility. I'd have probably still set the brick as described, and while still holding the brick in place with the IT, I'd have driven a brick wedge in to the mortar gap on the outside of the dome. Driving in the wedge would really compact the mortar in the joint, causing squeeze out and ensuring a good fill. Obviously, don't overdrive the wedge so far that it displaces the position at which the IT set the brick.

Regardless, your arch cuts look terrific. Nice work!

[CapePizza]

Thanks very much for your follow up, Doug. I've taken in a lot from studying your build, as well as your baked goods. Seeing those dough loaves on the parchment paper ready to be cooked was very cool. Your comment about building the dome rows and arch configuration at the same time is similar advise from UtahBH with intent of making adjustments as the two meet is advise I will heed.

Neil B and Mongo, thank you for your comments. This topic is certainly stirring up some thought about this. Mongo I think I see what you mean the way you describe it. I think maybe what is visually making things confusing is my arch is sitting on a herringbone pattern (those bricks that make up the oven floor). So, Mongo, what you're suggesting, the way I interpret it is, either add an additional arch brick(s)(right and left) in line with current arch bricks, extend down to CaSi board and cut the herringbone pattern bricks (the floor) around that. Otherwise, mortar the 2 current bottom arch bricks(right and left) to the current herringbone pattern (which is what my intent and original question was to do, or at least after I looked at some other's builds. I kind of like your idea of adding an additional brick(s), extending down to sit on the CaSi layer and cutting the herringbone bricks around the arch to kind lock it all (the arch) in place. I'll give all this some additional thought.

I had intended to work on the build today but realized the weather is changing and had to make one more trip to the outer beach for this season in my little Sturdee-Dory and harvest some muscles.

Thank you all. Appreciate your help!!

[Neil.B]

If you look at your post #71 you can see my bottom arch bricks are separate to the cooking floor and cemented to my insulation and outer ring (other oven builders have their bricks longer than mine).
You could make an easy adjustment by cutting your diagonal bricks under your arch and replacing with a straight.
Everyone has their own opinions on why the floor should be seperate to the dome (or not), it might not make a difference as your floor might not expand, so might not affect the arch...sorry for all the mights but I'm not sure if there is any proof of expansion of the cooking floor.