42" In South GA

[edonovan]

Thanks @baza!! Was out of town this weekend and have had a good amount of rain the past week, so it has been a lot of looking through builds and contemplating "what did I get myself into?" ... I have come to a couple conclusions that have held me up...
1) perfection is not the key and (as I have read on here) "mortar is my friend" (on the backside)
2) definitely cutting in a heat break on the entry floor (because why not)
3) not tapering arch entry bricks, as I "played around" with trying to as to keep mortar joints thin...I am working with a chop saw and It just was determined to be too much work then what it is worth and lookin over several builds that didn't taper...they look great!

Question I found today playing around...As I have noted before my IT wasn't help too much for the first-second course, but it looks like I am back on track on the next course without giving the inside too much of a lip...NOW...as I go up..say two more courses and hold next to my "arch/dome height gauge" I start to get further out.
1) should I adjust IT back when I get to that course to stay in line with my gauge?
2) I need to figure out how much I am going to shorten it (if that is the correct route) before cutting/tapering my inside arch bricks as It will affect where they intersect, correct?

[Baza]

edonovan Congrats on the progress and the new title ... it is the little things - awesome!
You have begun a great project and are asking all the good questions - you have amazing people here that will be of ENORMOUS help going forward.

Dino_Pizza was one of the many folks that helped me - he put together some good drawings that helped with layouts HERE.
Maybe they can help you ... they did with my 42" build.
JRPizza makes a good point about heat breaks - I went forward with one in the floor and will continue to do so as the builders here that have done remarkable work and been phenomenally supportive have all added some kind of heat break in a "why not" approach - I think they are happy for the containment of heat - and the mitigation of expansion. I used thermal tape in the notched vent floor landing to make the 'invisible' break. I'm sure there will be some heat bleed - but nominal.

Keep the pics, commentary and questions coming! You are in great company here!
Barry

[edonovan]

It's the simple things in life...like not being called a Peasant anymore!!! yay!!!

[JRPizza]

Like many others, I put in a heat break just in case". We all know decoupling the vent area that you don't need to keep hot from the dome that you do makes sense, so the relatively small additional work seems like the right thing to do. For my vent floor I just made a 1/4 inch gap that eventually filled with ash. Some builds have put a section of metal channel in the gap but I didn't see the necessity other than maybe aesthetics. You can see what I did with the upper vent in my build thread.

[edonovan]

Thanks again JRPizza I will start playing with measurements between the 43" and yours. And may be back if I can't figure out this first arch brick cut without doing that wedge and mortaring a good amount on that backside...
While I got you, how much heat loss and is it worth it to pull up my vent area floor right past my arch (once I figure it out) and cut in a heat break? I already have the image in my head for the heat break for around my vent arch, but wasn't sure about how important it is for the floor.

[MarkJerling]

A mate of mine (on my photography forum) lives near to the little airplane factory and works there. He's had quite a bit of snow.

[JRPizza]

Sorry, no 42". I found a 1.1 meter oven (43.3"0 and a 36 but no 42. For reference the 43+ oven had the arch right about 24.4" from center.
This is a good time to look at the protrusion of the arch for different builds. Some have the arch moved towards center as much as practical, leaving almost zero lip at the top, whereas some go for max protrusion which is closer to what I did. It is mostly a matter of choice but also effects how deep your vent area is. You want to plan this as you probably don't want to come up short and have extra space between the front of the landing and the edge of your stand, and you don't want to come up long and have to add material to your stand as some folks have.
PS, funny that I live very close to Everett and have family in Lake Stevens. I live just North of Lynnwood by Martha Lake.

[edonovan]

JRPizza isn't that is unusual for the ol PNW? I am actually originally from Everett and grew up in Lake Stevens, WA...moved to Daytona Beach when I was 13...quite the culture (and weather) shock.
Thank you, let me know if you find a 42".

[JRPizza]

We have about a foot of snow in the yard here North of Seattle and feet upon feet of new up in the Cascades. I've been shoveling all morning, especially the flat roof over the oven.
I'll look at my models and see if I have one for a 42" oven to check for arch placement. I measured from the center point to the forward edge of the arch as that surface is flat and is what we would call at work as a datum. I just checked my 39 and it was at 22.5". For a full 9" brick the inside edge would have indeed been at 13.3

[edonovan]

You are reading my mind JRPizza, we have been having rain all day today and I think for most of the beginning of the week, so it will be a good amount of planning for me.
Ok, so I have tried to read CAD pictures and definitely not my strong point, but from what I can understand the "inside" of your arch brick was in the neighborhood of 13.5" from center??

I am going for the tight inner joints that you have in your build, so from what I can see the bevel is the same direction on both sides of the brick, correct?

For the "out of round" when I set my IT at 21" it is a little bit away from holding the brick without having a (what I would consider) significant lip. And I know it isn't exact science but when I measure somewhat straight across ID I have 42.5 in some spots. I have done the "second" course (even though I think it is the first considering I "Stretchered" the first) and it is floor level, and started the 3rd (2nd in my eyes) maybe 8 bricks. I think we discussed earlier that you didn't use the spreadsheet, My IT is centered, but 1.38 above floor level, so I am wondering at what point I pull that back a bit? (will the spreadsheet help with that, I noticed that I mentions what course an adjustable IT should be set at.) That way I don't end up with a 22.38 high dome .

I will keep playing with that first arch brick at the floor level to see what I can do, from what I can see is my landing is flared and that may be why it looks angled.

Thanks again @ JRpizza and UtahBeehiver, yes I figured avalanche danger would be high this weekend, have fun for me when you can!

[UtahBeehiver]

JR covered the placement of the bottom of the arch. Here is a pic on how each of the angles of the tapered inner arch brick are determined. PS, it is also dumping loads of snow right now, almost too much, avalanche danger is really high.

[JRPizza]

For arch placement, you just need to make sure that your TDC brick will fall into the "shell" of your dome so you aren't out of round when the arch and dome intersect. I attached a few cad pictures so show what I mean. It is not an exact placement in that you have an inch or two to play with fore/aft (in/out). I chose a more forward placement so I would have more arch to build my vent over, but still have enough sticking back into the oven so I could have a good seat for the upper dome brick.
For your inverted vee I just started beveling when I could see a gap bigger than what I wanted to fill with mortar, which for me was early on as I wanted tight joints in the interior.
Lastly, I am not sure I understand your out of round situation. You only have one course so you might want to reset that and eliminate the problem. You need to use your IT starting at the second row or you will need to shim as the inner face of the dome bricks needs to be properly set along the radius of the ID.

[JRPizza]

This is a good time to sit back and make sure you have everything straight in your mind.
If you look at the first attached pic you can see how the top of the arch bricks are tapered to match the slope of the dome bricks at the same level. If you follow that slowly changing top angle on the arch bricks down it becomes the angle on the side of the arch bricks facing away from the opening like I show in pic #2. Until I figured this out I was doing similar to what you have which I show in pic #3 (the layout I didn't use). You could go ahead and fill in your gap with a wedge but you will need to start angling the outboard side of the bricks to mate with adjacent bricks and the inboard edge to mimic the ID of the dome. If you can still recover I'd consider recutting the bottom arch and adjacent bricks. It also looks like your arch brick is angling in a little, at least in relation to the floor bricks. If they are at the proper angle you should readjust the arch angle. Lastly (for not) is a trick you probably saw where you lay your arch form flat and play with the look of your arch without having to mess with any shims or fight gravity.

[edonovan]

Thank you JRPizza. Agree on the brick moisture is playing a role, some of these brick have been in the rain and are saturated and not grabbing well. So I got a whole course done yesterday and started on the next. And who would have guessed...I have questions ...
1) Picture 1, does that look correct as that first arch brick and then I will just have to do a small wedge in that large gap next to it ?

2) Picture 2, 3, 5 This is rough draft of arch layout, I know I have large joints and still deciding if I want to taper, but I am struggling to figure out how far in or out the dome intersects. Does picture 3 look like I am on the right page as you want to figure out TDC first then work your way down? and It seems like it is intersecting it fairly far out and taking most of that full brick? I know I have read this what feels like 1000x from UtahBeehiver explaining it, but something is escaping me. ( UtahBeehiver, I hope you are enjoying the mountains of snow you are getting...I am jealous just watching all my weather reports )

3) Picture 4, exactly how far up do I begin needing to bevel? Is it really just when I start seeing a inverted V? and Is it the same direction bevel on both sides (bottom brick) or opposite (top brick), and any trick on "how much bevel" or is eye balled?

4) Last but surely not least...as I have said in previous post...I am slightly "out of round" maybe 42.5" at places and right now my IT is useless to me...one, if I were to use it I would have a huge lip of bringing that brick inward, two, If I place it in the IT correctly It almost tilts the brick backwards as having a joint line on the inside.. Is there a course that I should really start using it? I have again just been "eye-balling" my courses based on the previous picture and "cheater jig" and giving about a 1/4 + joint on the back and keeping that uniformed all while trying to creep my bricks in just a bit to get me back to 42"

You all have been great!! and I will say, once you get that first course laid and mortared, It feels good...and you can "actually" see a light at the end of this tunnel...not saying that tunnel doesn't grow at points and probably goes dark...but definitely feels good.

[JRPizza]

Yes my oven was build with tight joints in the inside and big wide ones on the OD that I filled with mortar. I don't think some minor lack of adhesion (if that is what the cracks/separation is) in the first course will hurt the oven, but if it is lack of adhesion you probably need to dial in your mortar consistency and brick moisture before you get to far along. If you go back and look at my build I think I redid some of the joints that were not stuck well. Discussion started around post 18.