Pdx 42" update

[MarkJerling]

Awesome! I haven't been on my bike for a while but love the long rides and have done a couple of century rides.

So I have the side view ready and also less confidence in some elements of this drawing. First note two possible inset depths...does either work? If not, what is the guiding design principle?

Second - I'm wondering about the placement of the chimney landing - how far forward or back should it be? I drew in a possible chimney placement aligned just forward of the OR for the oven dome at it's base.

Final note, I'm assuming the oven dome starts with a course of sailors. Basically first course is 4.5 inches high, which clears the oven floor by 2 inches. Also assumes the floor bricks are cut to the IR with first course placed around the perimeter. I understand that for the indispensable tool to work correctly the pivot point needs to be positioned below the top of the first course. Make sense?

Who knew that pizza oven aficionados also like cycling? LOL
I do 3-4 rides a week, usually anywhere between 45 and 75km per ride, but I do do some centuries from time to time.
Road bike only.

[Macrinehart]

Hi JRPizza - Took a look at your build thread and think I have a better understanding now. Will darken linkes for the more "forward" position later and re-post. Also like your serpentine curve into the smoke box and chimney, and takeaway that the smoke box needs ot have enough internal volume to allow exhaust to draft out the chimney without getting "backed up" and going out the front. Do I have that right?

I have plenty of flexibility regarding the hearth dimensions at this point, since it's not even formed yet. What I think I need is to use 9" bricks for the arch to opening transition, and set the chimney landing arch in front with another arch of 9" bricks that have 1.5" wider radius (11.5" IR) to form the reveal. I notice on contributor to your discussion. Notched the back of the chimney landing arch so that it overlapped with the transition arch - I suppose that would support the hemispheric design, as opposed to your serpentine design. I wonder, though, if the notching reduces the depth of the chimney landing, or drives other design considerations for the decorative arch in front of the chimney.

In front of the chimney landing is another "decorative" arch, maybe 4.5" deep? So I'm envisioning 4.5" + 9" from the front of the opening to the reveal, or maybe 4.5" + 8 to 8.5" if I notch the bricks on the back side of the chimney landing. I'l post an updated pick of the template later.

[JRPizza]

Your sketches are coming thru a little faint for me - at least the contrast between the lines and background so it is hard for me to see exactly what you have going on. The TDC brick is going to be the longest brick in the arch and as such will be almost full length, with the remaning bricks getting shorter as you approach the bottom of the arch. Some builders try to draw their arches up with half bricks until they have that aha moment - I can't tell if you have done that or not but it seems like you may have. Here is a pic of my TDC brick where you can see that the rear/aft portion has the oven ID radius on the bottom and an angle corresponding to the approximate angle of the dome brick that will sit on top. When I cut that angles I flattened it a little on the top so there would be room for my mortar wedge. Ignore the line on the upper right as it should not be there.

[JRPizza]

You have a few inches (maybe less) of fore/aft (or in/out) position for your arch. If you are constrained for room on your landing you can move it towards the center of oven so there is no stick out at the top (I would not do it) but some protrusion is good and reducing protrusion makes the interior smaller. I moved my arch forward/out so I had some lip to build my vent arch up and over for my heat break and maximize room inside the oven. It all depends on how big of a landing you want. If you read through that part of my build I tried to reason out placement. There is also some discussion on chimney placement. Have a look and see if that answers any questions. Lastly I did not use any bricks standing on edge at the bottom. I found it easier to just lay the first row flat like the balance of the dome bricks and build up. It seemed like it was all more balanced and stable that way.

[Macrinehart]

Awesome! I haven't been on my bike for a while but love the long rides and have done a couple of century rides.

So I have the side view ready and also less confidence in some elements of this drawing. First note two possible inset depths...does either work? If not, what is the guiding design principle?

Second - I'm wondering about the placement of the chimney landing - how far forward or back should it be? I drew in a possible chimney placement aligned just forward of the OR for the oven dome at it's base.

Final note, I'm assuming the oven dome starts with a course of sailors. Basically first course is 4.5 inches high, which clears the oven floor by 2 inches. Also assumes the floor bricks are cut to the IR with first course placed around the perimeter. I understand that for the indispensable tool to work correctly the pivot point needs to be positioned below the top of the first course. Make sense?

[JRPizza]

No, I just need to proof read my posts - opening is 12.25(ish). I have a 9.75" radius sitting on a single 2.5 high brick plus whatever thickness of mortar at the bottom joint. That is why I called the hemispherical arch "elegant" - the symmetry of how a proper door width radius sits on a standard brick to give a proper opening height.

PS, I also need to carefully read the post I'm responding to. I somehow saw 11" radius even though you clearly stated 10. I went for a 30 mile bike ride today and must have burned more calories than I ate for dinner

[Macrinehart]

Looks pretty good. You might want to think about getting closer to the FB recommended open width of 20"for a 42" oven.

Thank you JRPizza. Noted and the IR is 10" in the drawing. I did, however, draw an incorrect 11" IR Circle when I first started. Is the eraser one of the greatest inventions ever?!

I am a little confounded on one point though - you note your opening is 20.25" high. Is that because you have 2 courses on the side before you start the arch?

[JRPizza]

Looks pretty good. You might want to think about getting closer to the FB recommended open width of 20"for a 42" oven. Your 11 IR will give you 22" which is OK but the wider it is the more heat you will loose. If you go with a 10 radius standing on 2.5" bricks on the bottom you will get a door height pretty close to the 63% of dome height that has been recommended and a 20" opening. My opening (for a 39") is about 19.5 wide by 12.25 high and I can get pretty much any pot we own under the arch. We do have a giant stock pot with a protruding handle on the lid that I have to slide in uncovered then reach in and place the lid, but that is not used very often.

[Macrinehart]

Ok - opening is 10" IR with one rank side wall. I drew the Side walls with 1/8" mortar on the IR and 2.5" wide brick on the outer radius. Basically alternated back and forth measuring brick and mortar from the floor toward the keystone. The final measure on the keystone is 2 1/4" exterior width. Interior opening height is 12.75".

Any issues? Thanks!

[Macrinehart]

Ok gang - I have my craft board. In my theme of not following directions I continued with foam core simple because I like the durability, and it was actually about 40% lower cost relative to the foldable project boards. I'm going to draw the front view first to get elevation, then transition to side view to plot the intersection of the arch and dome. Just pencil for now, the tip line is open for suggestions!

[UtahBeehiver]

Plus 2 with what jr and Gulf says. Hemi are self supporting and you do not have to worry about buttressing the vertical side walls (especially swallow axe arches)

[JRPizza]

I also am a big fan of the hemispherical arch. I found the simple geometry to be elegant and very simple to work with. If you decide to go that way there are many beautiful ovens on the forum you can get inspiration from. I can help with the tapering if you need it.

[Macrinehart]

Thank you Gulf. I should no doubt listen to your advice regarding the hemispheric arch. I just have that vision in my head of what my oven should look like. But I promise you this, I will draw up the hemispheric arch plan on craft board as you suggest and see how it looks.

[Gulf]

That's correct JR for a hemispherical arch. I recently got some first hand experience for a segmental arch on the Simmental Farm 36" and 48" Rumford Style Fireplace build. For it (my first rodeo with a segmental arch) I set the placement of the internal arch by that rule. We decided to scribe and cut the internal arch before building the dome. I found out while scribing the arch that the arch was placed too far forward. For a segmental arch the risers need to be set back further into the dome than the TDC brick to determine the placement of the face of the internal arch. We had to move the face of the arch in by 2".

Later, I was wondering if that could have been predicted in the original template. I think now that it could. Since the ID and OD radius' are the same for horizontal and vertical of a hemispherical dome, I use them on the half template to represent both. I use color coded markers to represent the top down and the cross section views.

In the pic below, I show the original drawing with the edits in black that show why the arch was moved backward into the dome in the field. The adjustment in the field worked exactly as the edit shows. The arch needed moving inward by 2". The risers were 9" high. A line from the inside of the first riser drawn to the to top riser makes that work perfectly. (remember that the template represents top down and cross section). I think that it would work for any size oven it drawn correctly. This is for a 36" ID oven, that will change as the size of the oven changes

Macrinehart, I recommend that you pick up some foldable cardboard project board from the dollar store. Two sheets will be enough. You already have the yardstick. Do that, and I may be able to help you with the internal arch placement. Also, there are some more pics on the above linked thread of a dry stacked segmental arch that shows several views of the cut arch. There will be others added as the oven was built and as I get time to update. Again, I advise a hemispherical arch for larger ovens as you 42".

[JRPizza]

Here is a cad side view I use to show how the TDC brick needs to be located so it falls within the inner and outer diameter of the brick shell.