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**exceloven** · 06-29-2009, 07:02 PM

re: OctoForno

Welcome John,
You've found the right site, and it seems your'e well on your way. As far as your dimensions, I think your landing area will be a factor. I haa 14" landing and my stand is 81". I have a 6" area in front of the landing. I'm sure you can make it work with your dimensions by adjusting your landing.
Disneyland? Orange, Anahiem, Tustin, just wondering. I'm in Oceanside but am up that way a lot for work. Keep the questions and pictures coming.

Mark

**GianniFocaccia** · 06-30-2009, 12:25 AM

re: OctoForno

Thanks for the reply, Mark!

Funny, of all the builds and oven configs I have studied on FB over the past four or five months, the one I patterned (copied) my design after was......yours! I like the benefit of a deeper vent landing (keep smoke out of the front), the larger vent dimensions and the clean lines of the construction.

I am assuming your concern is the fact that my landing appears to extend out into space unsupported. Actually, my design calls for the hearth slab to extend 4" past the face of the block stand (retaining wall) and another 5" to support a 1 1/4" thick piece of granite. This is the only question mark I have regarding my design, but was not arrived at without lots of thought. This design (and the 14" landing depth) was decided upon in order to allow enough room for insulation and 4" concrete block walls surrounding the dome to the sides of the vent. I also wanted to take advantage of the corner shelf to the left of the oven opening which would otherwise be a wasted corner.

Please take a look at the supporting (pun intended) 'blueprints' and tell me if you think the 5 inches of extruded concrete (rebar not depicted) will accommodate the slab of (38"x11") granite. Otherwise, I'm fairly sure the extended 4" of hearth slab will support the last inch or so of landing bricks. If I have to go back to the drawing board and redesign I will.

I actually live in La Mirada but while in college I met my wife working at Disneyland where she still works.

Nice build, btw, and gorgeous wine cellar! I have enjoyed watching your build progress and have learned quite a bit from the answers from the collective. Can I ask: where did you get your clay chimney flue? I would like to do something similar. And, have you ever had second thoughts on your vent size? I would prefer not to have to employ a chimney much over 36" so would like to ensure a good draw with a large vent and larger diameter flue.

Thanks again for your input, Mark.

Cheers,

John

**exceloven** · 07-01-2009, 04:43 PM

re: OctoForno

John,
Thanks for the kind words. I think we all find a build we try to copy.
Looking at your drawings, I think you are golden. Your design looks great. You will be so happy with the counter right there on the right side. Straight from the oven to the counter. I'm looking forward to following your progress. Feel free to ask anything, we all have.

Mark

**exceloven** · 07-01-2009, 04:52 PM

re: OctoForno

John,
I forgot to address your question about the vent size. My vent pipe is about 30",(bought at RCP) and my draw is very good. As you can see I have no black smoke residue on my exterior brick work. I'm sure larger vent at 36" would even be better.
One other thing I would do next time is use the "indispensable tool" as Greg, James and others are using. I didn't use it and mine turned out fine but I think it makes the whole process much easier and more accurate (see Greg's perfect 16" circle at the top)

Mark

**Dino_Pizza** · 07-02-2009, 09:32 AM

re: OctoForno

Hi John,

I really like your drawings! I know they are a lot of work but they sure makes for a well thought out project.

Your 73"x74" base will be fine for your 42" oven. My 42" is on a 71"wx78" deep base & I've got plenty of room using 3 blankets but your vermic-conc will only add add another 1"-2" and since your counter will cantilever out front, you're fine. So, welcome to the forum and congratulations on good looking project. Nice work on the footings and base too. Cheers, Dino

**GianniFocaccia** · 07-03-2009, 10:08 AM

re: OctoForno

Hello Dino,

Thanks for the input! I found out about SketchUp on this site and after a short learning curve it's been invaluable in helping me make design choices and visualize what each construction phase should look like.

I am impressed with many features of your build, especially your entry arch transition. The endless problem-solving and design approaches to oven construction by all the builders are really cool to see. You're lucky - you have Mike to bounce things off of and you guys get to work together on such a neat project. I'm going solo on my build and wish I could go faster!

I had to wrestle with a front yard underground sprinkler valve yesterday, but did manage to demo my retaining wall. It took forever with a hammer and chisel (just kidding!) but now I'll have access to my wood storage area and reasonable room to pour and finish my foundation slab.

Cheers,

John

**GianniFocaccia** · 09-04-2009, 06:14 PM

re: OctoForno

Hello All!

After what has seemed like forever, I finally have some progress to report. I was able to pour my foundation slab, mortar in all my angle-cut stand blocks and repair the retaining wall that fronts my oven stand. After cutting out the original retaining wall I had discovered a crack in one of the blocks and when removing it with a hammer (what else?) accidentally cracked the full block next to it. I lost two days rebuilding it but that?s life.

I went with a 2x10? support/insulation frame dimension that would allow 1? of stand overlap, 4? of support slab depth and 5? of vermicrete insulation. Next, after scribing a plywood template for the base of the octagon support slab , I was able to cut and bend ?? rebar that got placed 12? on center and ends that terminated 8? into the depths of my block cores.

My plan called to pour the support and the insulation slabs separately, basically for ease of placing and filling the insulation form. Unfortunately, after the first pour my computer crashed and I lost all of the photos I had of the rebar grid, but oh well.

Later, after two road trips, a long weekend in Las Vegas and a week of hosting a Japanese homestay player (my daughter stayed at this girl?s family house in Fukuoka, Japan, last summer when we visited during an all-star basketball exchange program) I was able to finish my insulation form and pour the surrounding concrete deck. The redwood bender boards proved challenging, but soaking them first did the trick.

Yesterday I visited the local ANH Refractory distribution center and was impressed with Frank, the DC manager. He took the time to walk me through the warehouse and introduced me to every one of his refractory products, including: 5-6 kinds of refractory bricks, refractory mortar, castable, insulation block, boards, ceramic blanket, and a caulk-like fiber insulation that comes in a tube. The coolest product (I think) he had was 12?x24? refractory ?tiles? that came in 2, 2 ?? and 3? thicknesses. If I had the budget to buy these for my oven floor I would, but I would have to also buy firebricks to ensure matching expansion rates. Since I already got my bricks, I told myself I would do this on my next oven.

Understandably, I felt like a kid in a candy store and walked out with my first bag of refractory mortar and (unexpected) a 24cu? case of 2? Insblok 19 that had been accidentally torn open by a forklift and subsequently returned by the customer. I got it for less than the price of three bags of vermiculite so off I went, deciding I would just go with 3? vermicrete /2? insulation board and use the leftover vermiculite on the dome.

Fortunately, my initial thoughts of overkill dissipated when I remembered that quite a few FB?ers (Elizabeth? Les?) have designed their insulation layers beyond the recommended 2? of insulating board or 4? of vermicrete/perlcrete. Besides, didn?t I see somewhere that ?one cannot over-insulate??

I?m not sure if I will press the Insblock into wet vermicrete (dmun) or let my vermicrete cure first and lay the Insblok onto a dry vermicrete ?slab?. My initial thoughts are that pressing the board onto wet vermicrete would help it cure more slowly in this 95-98* socal weather.

After that I have to install 1500sq' of patio pavers, and then on to the oven!

John

**dmun** · 09-04-2009, 07:43 PM

re: OctoForno

It's nice that you got such good treatment from HW: my visit to my local branch sent me looking for other sources. I also wanted those refractory tiles, but, wow, the cost...

Insblock19 is a good product. It's used in kiln building a lot, and your two inches will probably be enough. I used two and a half inch (it may have been left over from a custom order) and my support slab almost never warms up on the bottom.

**Dino_Pizza** · 09-04-2009, 10:19 PM

re: OctoForno

Great looking base John. Recessing the insulating layer into the base is a great way to go. The octagon base is so cool. Can't wait to see the rest. Very nice job so far. Look forward to the rest., -Dino

**SCChris** · 08-12-2010, 07:43 AM

Re: OctoForno

John,

How's the build going?

Chris

**GianniFocaccia** · 08-12-2010, 12:55 PM

Re: OctoForno

Chris,

Haven't had much time to work on the oven since I've been tied up with job searching and interviews. Should be over soon, though.

In my 'spare' time I have decided to make several major changes to my original oven plan:

1. I will be going with a 39" oven instead of 42". This is because I would like to cook in an oven fired once-a-week that should hopefully give me three days cooking heat. I am guessing that I will be inclined to fire a slightly smaller oven more often than a larger one.

2. My entryway will be a hemispherical arch to take advantage of the strength of the design, the aesthetics, and the fact that the ancient ovens had these.

3. I will go with a thermal break between my inner arch and the entryway as well as a break between my oven floor and entryway floor primarily because of data that you supplied verifying heat loss through your entryway soapstone. Also, I am in the market for some insulating firebrick to support the entire entryway.

I am just about ready to cut my oven firebrick 'subfloor' and then the soapstone. I saw a YouTube video on cutting soapstone easily with a carbide-tipped jigsaw blade, but the guy I got the SS from said he rough cuts the radius with a masonry skilsaw and grinds the edges smooth. Didn't you do it this way?

Anyway, here's some pics of the soapstone I picked up and my nearly finished patio in front of my nearly started oven.

John

**SCChris** · 08-12-2010, 01:34 PM

Re: OctoForno

Sorry to hear you're in the finding a job mode, that sucks!! As for cutting my soapstone in the entry area, I used the HF-10 to make the cuts. I clamped and supported the rough stone enough to get the cuts. Round cuts is going to be a bit tougher on you. I wonder if the soapstone folks you bough yours from have a jet machine to that can cut a 38 inch circle for you. A six pack of whatever and a $20 and you could be done with this part. The other way to do it is to get a 7" diamond blade for your circular saw and cut an octagon or better. The stone isn't that hard but because what we want is higher in serpentine than talc it's not really workable with carbide wood blades.

John I'm clearing out my self fabricated brick cutting jig, you're welcome to it if you'd like it.

Chris

**GianniFocaccia** · 08-12-2010, 04:23 PM

Re: OctoForno

Chris,

The gentleman I bought the soapstone from is a sole-proprietor cabinet-maker at heart who branched out into countertops and had scraps in his garage he was looking to sell. Truth be told, I would like to tackle this job personally. My plan is to line my slabs up on saw horses and scribe a circle, cover the circle with tape like you did, and scribe the circle again. I want to try the (stone?) carbide tipped jigsaw blades same as the process shown here:

Soapstone countertops (scroll down to video #14)

It should go smoothly, but if it doesn't work I'll go with my masonry wet-circular saw (worked beautifully making 45deg cuts for my octagon oven base blocks) and then grind the edges smooth.

Sure, I'd be honored to put your jig to work! It is easily the most advanced brick-cutting tool I have seen used here. Let me know how we can make the transfer and I'll make it up to you once I get back into the working world. I'll be happy to swing by if that's easiest.

John

**EricU** · 08-12-2010, 07:11 PM

Re: OctoForno

Originally posted by GianniFocaccia View Post

Hello All!

After what has seemed like forever, I finally have some progress to report...

After that I have to install 1500sq' of patio pavers, and then on to the oven!

John

John,

Very nice job, that is how I did my slab with the inset insulation as I was also going to use 4" block (though my oven surround is the boring square shape) but decided to switch to steel studs and cement board because I want to batter my walls.

I really like the cantilever at your hearth!

The people on this site have been a huge source of help and information, and as my build progresses, I am continiually asking for help.

Good luck! Eric.

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