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  • Liteceeper
    replied
    Re: new build in werribee

    Hi Colin
    great to hear the conduit idea is helping, nice to give back on the forum.

    With the curing I agree with david s & brissie long & slow, although my oven had a long drying period the render on the CF did not and I have a few cracks around flue area in render, the oven itself is great. What I didn't expect was the slab under the calcium silicate board (50mm) cracked at first big clearing fire.
    I was enjoying the crackle and pop of the wood when heard a deeper thud and thought that didnt sound good. Looked around oven brickwork and that looked fine, then noticed two fine cracks in slab from centre to sides and 90 degree to each other.
    So I would do a couple more big fires (not to clearing stage) in hind sight to try drive more moisture from calsil board.
    That said the cracks are very small and four big firings later no futher movement so things are settling.

    Leave a comment:


  • oasiscdm
    replied
    Re: new build in werribee

    Hi brissie

    I always thought that about vermicrete on outside of blanket. That's why when talking to commercial builders each one used the cement based layer immediately after the refractory. Made more sense to me for any number of reasons.Locking the dome, preventing ceramic fibres entering oven through cracks, easier the get rid of the water, prevent cracking (by providing a thicker cement based layer (just a theory) etc.

    We will see when I finish. Ran out of shiralite, 3 bags short.

    Liteceeper

    your pipe idea works a treat an absolute treat. Its a bit trickier without the chook wire to tie it too [shiralite on first] but a few tapcons here and there. Only problem should have used smaller tapcons never the less job done very easily.
    I see what you mean by having it 6" apart.

    See you Monday Mark
    Last edited by oasiscdm; 12-08-2013, 12:22 AM.

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  • brissie
    replied
    Re: new build in werribee

    Hi oasiscdm,

    Not sure about shiralite but my 100 mm insulation on top of CF, has taken weeks to remove the water, with decent fires a few times a week. It's been covered by a tarp so the sun doesn't get to do its job.

    Condensate on the plastic is a great indicator especially after a long burn. At first when I thought the insulation was dry but checked the tarp. It was dripping wet. Just now it looks like most of the water has gone.

    Cheers,

    Leave a comment:


  • oasiscdm
    replied
    Re: new build in werribee

    Originally posted by david s View Post
    When it looks dry it will still contain lots of water. You can test it by placing a sheet of plastic over it when firing. Water will condense under the plastic to show you water is still present.
    Thanks David

    I already have the plastic ready to go. Doug and yourself are big on this so will be curing that way. My burner didn't show [damn] so will fire up some heat beads this afternoon and get it up too 100c then 150c ish tomorrow. Burner arrives Monday crank it to 200c then. Hopefully by weekend I can wrap it up neat and tidy just like liteceeper and Russell and of course some others.

    Leave a comment:


  • david s
    replied
    Re: new build in werribee

    Originally posted by oasiscdm View Post
    What's interesting with shiralite is you know it's dry by the color it turns. Acquired a burner like Liteceeper used. Will double as a paella burner moving forward. Of course I can use oven too.
    When it looks dry it will still contain lots of water. You can test it by placing a sheet of plastic over it when firing. Water will condense under the plastic to show you water is still present.

    Leave a comment:


  • oasiscdm
    replied
    Re: new build in werribee

    Thanks again Liteceeper


    Are you sure 5-8mm thick is enough thickness I spoke with a couple of knowledgeable people yesterday and both suggest around 50mm, a third 75mm [a little too thick for my liking.

    I'm using a stone granite coat when finishing mine. I think I posted a picture somewhere on my thread, they now have newer options eg. marble and hammer finished.
    Last edited by oasiscdm; 12-09-2013, 03:01 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Liteceeper
    replied
    Re: new build in werribee

    Originally posted by oasiscdm View Post
    Thanks Liteceeper.

    One more so your render is perlite and cement! Is this the top coat or will you be using a cement solid render on top of that?

    Love your technique with the blanket.
    No, top coat will be DryPak Render Coat same as patio walls approx 5-8mm thick.
    Not sure what I will do then paint, tile, stick on brick ends.

    Leave a comment:


  • oasiscdm
    replied
    Re: new build in werribee

    Thanks Liteceeper.

    One more so your render is perlite and cement! Is this the top coat or will you be using a cement solid render on top of that?

    Love your technique with the blanket.

    Leave a comment:


  • Liteceeper
    replied
    Re: new build in werribee

    Originally posted by oasiscdm View Post
    Liteceeper 3 more question.

    Do you have a close up of how you fastened the blanket in place?.
    Also did you lay the render in one day?
    and how many bags and what brand render did you use?

    Love the symmetry of those render application shots. Your application technique is simple and effective with the flexible pipe.
    Hi Colin
    Apologies for the slow reply, been cookin
    The render was laid one strip per day, I initially laid a 3" (75mm) strip using plastic garden edging set out from calsil with 2" (50mm) timber blocks and held in place with bricks.
    Then next day rendered between this and the 2" (50mm) corrugated conduit, in hind-sight I would have made the first strip slightly smaller about 6" 180mm.
    Let set overnight, removed conduit next day and set higher after trimming for diameter reducing. Repeat until at top where I laid strips across top to continue gauge as diameter to small for a circle of conduit.

    The render was 5:1 Exfoliators Litefill Premium Perlite and Brightonlite HE cement. I used 3.5 8kg bags of perlite and 4 20kg cement.

    Blanket held by wires ran across dome to long screws anchored in calsil board with about 6" of tail on each end of wire. I had a screw in top centre of dome which I wrapped wire around and continued to screw on opposite side when all wires in place I removed screw and tie all wires together with small piece of wire. This allowed wires to be removed from screws as blanket was wrapped around dome and wires passed over blanket. The blanket had wedges cut with large shears to allow for neat fit.

    Leave a comment:


  • oasiscdm
    replied
    Re: new build in werribee

    What's interesting with shiralite is you know it's dry by the color it turns. Acquired a burner like Liteceeper used. Will double as a paella burner moving forward. Of course I can use oven too.
    Last edited by oasiscdm; 12-04-2013, 04:54 PM.

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  • cobblerdave
    replied
    Re: new build in werribee

    Gudday Colin
    Yes what you doing is sensible, you will be drying the oven out at the shiralite stage which is great as you will not arrive at the end with a huge mass of wet oven.
    regards dave

    Leave a comment:


  • UtahBeehiver
    replied
    Re: new build in werribee

    Colin,

    Lots of ways to skin the cat, sometimes ya just got to do what works for you.

    Leave a comment:


  • oasiscdm
    replied
    Re: new build in werribee

    Originally posted by BOOMERS WFO View Post
    I agree with Dave. I took the advice during the build to cure while working finishing oven, all the moisture was gone by the time I insulated.

    I had cooked quite a few pizza's whilst I was waiting to finish.

    In fact, the insulation was on for some time before final vermiculite and render layers applied (covered with a tarp).

    Over 12 months later, I only have two small cracks in outer render, and these are near the vent where I know the blanket was not applied as well as the rest of the dome.

    Cheers

    Craig
    Originally posted by cobblerdave View Post
    Gudday
    Unless you get the insulation done? It will able to be used without it. Never really made up my mind completely on which way to go on when to cure. I lean towards curing the dome shell before insulating. My gut feeling is there is to much water trapped by to many layers and a lot of a lot of ovens and they crack due to steam.
    My own experience was the wood form was burnt out and I used the oven before I used dry insulated and rendered. Min moisture and only a couple of hairline cracks in the entrance due to having steel supports.
    Using pearlcrete as a layer above the dry insulation I don't think myself is really required and only adds extra moisture and complexity to the build. You can render over dry insulation and get a good shape. If fact pearlcrete is a sh@t to work with and the water pours out of the stuff into your dry insulation which can't be good. Render is much easier to work into shape than pearlcrete.
    Regards dave
    thanks Dave and Craig

    I understand both your points of view and have agonized over this one, especially considering that everyone has done the reverse of what I am doing.

    However, after much consideration and views from 3 commercial oven builders I have decided to use Shiralite around the Dome to insulate and lock the bricks in place. It is used in Commercial oven builds in this order and suggested to me by someone that has been in the oven building business for 30 years. I then researched it too death.

    Once this is layed over the Dome I will begin a slow and steady oven cure.

    Once the Shiralite has dried [very easy to tell] I will then begin to apply the Blanket. Now I know various builders out there say always use the blanket first as it is a better insulator but insulation is insulation. My view after research is that blanket is flexible so if using 75 - 100mm of blanket then vermicrete, then Render. Then you have a soft layer over the oven. Its just a view I have that differs from the norm.

    I do intend putting in a vent at the top of the Dome like yours Dave which by the way I must go and get before the weekend.

    I built a Utahbeehiver special today.
    Last edited by oasiscdm; 12-04-2013, 05:01 AM.

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  • BOOMERS WFO
    replied
    Re: new build in werribee

    I agree with Dave. I took the advice during the build to cure while working finishing oven, all the moisture was gone by the time I insulated.

    I had cooked quite a few pizza's whilst I was waiting to finish.

    In fact, the insulation was on for some time before final vermiculite and render layers applied (covered with a tarp).

    Over 12 months later, I only have two small cracks in outer render, and these are near the vent where I know the blanket was not applied as well as the rest of the dome.

    Cheers

    Craig

    Leave a comment:


  • cobblerdave
    replied
    Re: new build in werribee

    Originally posted by oasiscdm View Post
    Got a start on the decorative arch. I wont progress much before Xmas on this unless I get it insulated quickly.

    You can also notice the thermocouples I made poking out. My idea is that I will cap them and use as I see fit. Might make them permanent or not. Will decide later but will only use 5 in total should I go that route.
    Gudday
    Unless you get the insulation done? It will able to be used without it. Never really made up my mind completely on which way to go on when to cure. I lean towards curing the dome shell before insulating. My gut feeling is there is to much water trapped by to many layers and a lot of a lot of ovens and they crack due to steam.
    My own experience was the wood form was burnt out and I used the oven before I used dry insulated and rendered. Min moisture and only a couple of hairline cracks in the entrance due to having steel supports.
    Using pearlcrete as a layer above the dry insulation I don't think myself is really required and only adds extra moisture and complexity to the build. You can render over dry insulation and get a good shape. If fact pearlcrete is a sh@t to work with and the water pours out of the stuff into your dry insulation which can't be good. Render is much easier to work into shape than pearlcrete.
    Regards dave

    Leave a comment:

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