Lancer's Philippine Build, Close to Australia Anyhoo...

[Lancer]

Re: Lancer's Philippine Build, Close to Australia Anyhoo...

Weather is still crap. Reminds me of a blustery fall season on the East Coast. I have the option to rent the cement mixer though this would bring a pause to the oven, it would bring in some pesos.

Still I doubt I'll do that. Haven't heard from our carpenter whether he can work next week. As we've cut to 3 days a week I've told the guys to take work if they can find it. Also everything we do will now be exposed to the elements since we've stopped work in the garage (cleaning wood) as the water pump died and part of the cause was eating sawdust. Got a new one but... So we need nice days.

I've considered what has been said here about the insulation and am thinking of using the lava for the rocket stoves and buying perlite for everything above the floor of the oven. The brick floor needs a foundation which the lava rock set in refractory mortar provides. (Also the lava is surrounded by perlite) The outside of the brick dome, between the cooking dome brick and the onion dome can be pure 100% perlite. That's better than heating lava every time I start the oven, yes?

Perlite comes from Luzon and is pretty cheap for a monster bag. Doubt I'd spend $100 insulating everything above the floor. The floor itself has a combo of lava and perlite. Floor floor floor, insulate, its done.

Imagine a bunch of grey rocks (that float, lava) surrounded by a snow storm of perlite dust.

Thoughts?

[Lancer]

Re: Lancer's Philippine Build, Close to Australia Anyhoo...

Camera and them desktop died. Just got the comp fixed but the weather has been lousy, raining, windy. Very unPhilippines like. Hopefully next week is workable.

[oasiscdm]

Re: Lancer's Philippine Build, Close to Australia Anyhoo...

Camera got wet and died. Wife has a tablet to take pics but I have no idea if I can download them to this computer.

Hey Lancer i'll put my IT cap on. Use dropbox [up load to cloud ]then copy from cloud onto your computer. Or use your phone and do the same thing that's what I do kills a number of birds with one stone I have 3 copies of all my oven photos.

Can then access them anywhere.

[Greenman]

Re: Lancer's Philippine Build, Close to Australia Anyhoo...

Technology + Water = Heartache. Never fear, if you can find a USB cable to hook the things together you can usually get something happening. Did you try pulling the SD card out of the camera and reading it with the computer?

Most computers will recognise cameras, tablets etc as an external drive.

You probably know that anyway. But that's my .02 just to be sure. You have leaped bigger hurdles than this one!

Very interested to see how things are going.

[Lancer]

Re: Lancer's Philippine Build, Close to Australia Anyhoo...

Camera got wet and died. Wife has a tablet to take pics but I have no idea if I can download them to this computer.

[Lancer]

Re: Lancer's Philippine Build, Close to Australia Anyhoo...

Thanks for the reply stonecutter. I'll try making a one cubic order of the crushed stone. Sometimes, like with the limestone corp, the minimum is 6 cubic meters.

I'd have to think about that one.

[stonecutter]

Re: Lancer's Philippine Build, Close to Australia Anyhoo...

Tested the perlite we have today. While the spaces between the granules fill with water the actual stuff does not, which is good news. It should shed water over time.

I have never seen perlite absorb water...ever. At least none of the stuff I have used..and it's labeled as Horticultural Perlite.

[stonecutter]

Re: Lancer's Philippine Build, Close to Australia Anyhoo...

Stonecutter, can you tell me what you mean by "rich mix"? Also how you would improve on it and explain the improvements to a layman? I'd appreciate it. Getting this aspect right is the single most important issue regarding any oven, yes? Thanks...

When a mortar mix is referred as rich, that means there is a high ratio of binder to aggregate. Conversely, a lean mix has a higher aggregate to binder ratio. True, there is some forgiveness in what is needed when building an oven, but there is a lot to know about mortar within the full scope of masonry. You will be O.K. with 3:1:1:1, and that ratio is has been used by many on the forum successfully. I use a leaner mixture.

The "river sand" is very fine at least, amazingly so. It doesn't look round to me, just small, some is not much bigger than dust which doesn't blow away. I wonder if its called river sand and its actually dug out of a hill somewhere. Wife just told me the guys that brought it said it was from "right by the river." I have 3 choices for sand. First is this stuff from the rivers up in the hills that I described above. Second is beach sand which is rounded and now illegal to take. Third is crushed rock, and the masons tell me they only use it if nothing else is available. Its black and has big granules and a lot of dust from being crushed.
Sand is as important than the binder or gauging material. The larger the voids...like the back of the firebrick on a dome... the larger the aggregate in the mortar should be. Super tight joints...then use finer sand. The crushed rock aggregate is what I would use ( I assume that the largest particles in this sand are no larger than this - * of course, that is without seeing it...but it sounds like the mason sand I prefer to work with. The ideal mortar sand is well graded, with particles ranging from course to fine. There would be nothing wrong with blending a couple kinds of sand if that is what it takes. If the river sand is sharp and graded, then that will be fine too.

Sorry I haven't answered sooner, I missed your reply. Hope that helps.

[Lancer]

Re: Lancer's Philippine Build, Close to Australia Anyhoo...

Tested the perlite we have today. While the spaces between the granules fill with water the actual stuff does not, which is good news. It should shed water over time.

[Lancer]

Re: Lancer's Philippine Build, Close to Australia Anyhoo...

Took a batch of pics today cobblerdave, and thanks for your kind words. Early work attaching lava rocks to the raised platform with the home made refractory mortar, long may it last. I've seen some amazing builds here though, and am always impressed by the exacting work done. If I do half as well with my weird plan and the shortages of materials locally I'll be a happy man. Your words mean a lot to me CD, with a difficult build ahead and I again thank you for them.

[cobblerdave]

Re: Lancer's Philippine Build, Close to Australia Anyhoo...

Gudday lancer
Hearth shots can be a bit boring, to the owner/builder its pretty special.
Now yours going to be special and your pics are always plentiful and top notch.
Awaiting the pics
Regards dave

[Lancer]

Re: Lancer's Philippine Build, Close to Australia Anyhoo...

Rich or poor we start mixing refractory mortar tomorrow in the early AM.

[Lancer]

Re: Lancer's Philippine Build, Close to Australia Anyhoo...

Only innovators can make a better wheel.

Reminds me of an old "B.C." cartoon I read in the funny papers 30 years ago. A stone age guy is shown chipping away at a square wheel. His amigo asks "What will it do?" The stone age cutter replies "It will roll." Or some such, been a long time.

Kiln project was a square wheel.

Stonecutter, can you tell me what you mean by "rich mix"? Also how you would improve on it and explain the improvements to a layman? I'd appreciate it. Getting this aspect right is the single most important issue regarding any oven, yes? Thanks...

The "river sand" is very fine at least, amazingly so. It doesn't look round to me, just small, some is not much bigger than dust which doesn't blow away. I wonder if its called river sand and its actually dug out of a hill somewhere. Wife just told me the guys that brought it said it was from "right by the river." I have 3 choices for sand. First is this stuff from the rivers up in the hills that I described above. Second is beach sand which is rounded and now illegal to take. Third is crushed rock, and the masons tell me they only use it if nothing else is available. Its black and has big granules and a lot of dust from being crushed.

I added some of the river sand to the pool sand filter and it really increased the effectiveness. Sand for the filter is also not supposed to be round to be effective so its the same as you described for the WFO. So, maybe its a good rough sand because it works in the filter, for what its worth. Come to think about it, maybe if pool sand were available it could be used in a WFO mix. Unfortunately its not available to me, and anywhere it would be expensive to get. Supposed to change filter sand every 10 years because its been worn smooth in the filter process. Sorry if I just told you stuff you already know.

david s, thanks.

So I'll test the perlite to see if it has silicon...which might melt away anyway. If water is absorbed then I have another issue to resolve. The foundation of the oven has been made to drain water, like a large sink with the concrete poured and troweled trending downwards to a hole in the center. My insulation material is a combination of lava rocks and perlite filling in the cracks and spaces. It could turn into a sopping wet mess down there. Somehow I have to direct the water that comes out of the oven away from the perlite. Have to think about that one, any ideas?

[david s]

Re: Lancer's Philippine Build, Close to Australia Anyhoo...

It depends on what kind of perlite you have. Some of it is coated with silicon and does not absorb water, but the uncoated stuff, which is the only perlite available to me , absorbs water like crazy. It is often used as a soil conditioner by nurseries for this reason.

[stonecutter]

Re: Lancer's Philippine Build, Close to Australia Anyhoo...

Refined the list as follows,,,

3 parts river sand.

2 parts fire clay

1/2 part portland

1/2 part silicate

1 part lime. This comes in buckets and between the portland and silicate in it makes the portions balance a bit better than it appears.

The kiln is now gone. I'm not used to getting my arse kicked by a project and though I had only charcoal, no coal, its left me a little concerned for this project. For instance, is the mortar mix good? I think it is based on other stuff I've seen both here at forno and another place on the net. Still...I was sure about making quicklime too.

The normal stuff that accumulates on any large flat surface has been cleared off the oven base, and the base is being prepared to receive lava rocks (pumice) under the location of the dome. These will be solidly set with a minimal but strong use of refractory mortar. Having been through 1 substantial quake I don't dare leave the dome foundation loose. The lava rock in other floor locations will then be set with mortar in a manner not as exacting. The gaps in the lava rock will then be filled in with perlite granules to complete the insulation. Found perlite in the very last place I looked, I was astonished. Its manufactured on Luzon and is dirt cheap compared to prices I see in the West, like everything else except Portland.

Question. Does perlite absorb water? I can test this when we get a bag open but an hoping someone is in the know.

I feel like I'm doing a few almost new methods, such as making refractory mortar which maybe everyone feels like they don't know enough to help. So now there's worries, but it will get built. In the future is pumice and perlite combined, and the onion dome. Have to get the carpenter, Fidel, to set up guides for that. He just finished the dumbwaiter so he's available. One less burden on this old brain.

I really need to sit and read the thread again, get some new inspiration from the wisdom shared here. Its time to build! :b:

Your ratios are going to make a very rich mix. You might want to make sure that the river sand is not rounded grained...that makes for weak mortar and concrete.


Perlite does not absorb moisture.