Vesuvio 90 Replica Build

[Golfpro2301]

Hello

i am in works of planning my vesuvio replica build but a question on base. Im currently having a paver patio installed with a corner section being poured concrete to set oven base on. With paver being stronger than concrete would it be ok to just have pavers the entire area and lay cinder blocks on top? Thanks

[Gulf]

It depends on what the foundation subsoil consists of. Pavers on loose soil is a very different situation than pavers resting on bedrock.

[Golfpro2301]

It depends on what the foundation subsoil consists of. Pavers on loose soil is a very different situation than pavers resting on bedrock.

Thanks Gulf. I guess I should have provided more clarification. The patio area where the pizza oven will sit will have soil compacted by a compactor. then there will be at least 6" of 3/4" stone compacted in two 3" pours. 1" layer of sand and then pavers on top. The corner in which over will sit will have a stone retaining wall around it. Will be similar to below but at a right angle

[Gulf]

I’m assuming that you are planning to remove the topsoil and compact a suitable fill dirt. Top soil is not suitable for a foundation. A good portion of topsoil is made up of organic matter. Your plan is just fine for pavers. However, I would still pour a reinforced concrete slab for the oven stand to sit. If there is any setting, under the weight of the oven, that would insure that the stand settled evenly with no cracking.

[UtahBeehiver]

I agree with Gulf on pouring a concrete pad where the oven sits. With a concrete pad, the base is tied together both horizontally and vertically with wire mesh and rebar where as individual paver are not tied to each other.

[Golfpro2301]

Contractor is going pour 6x6
pad under oven. I worked with engineering group at work and developed a wooden platform that is hurricane proof

regarding the oven floor I would like to keep as much of insulation in slab as possible. If I had oven mold in place and poured the counter than removed and filled void with 5” vermiculite would that keep heat in the floor? 2.5” bricks out be on top

[Gulf]

You really need to look at some of the oven builds on this site for a lot of this to make real sense. Vermiculite alone will compress under the oven's weight. Imo the oven will be slowly sinking into this "void" over time. The walls will sink faster than the oven floor creating a major problem to deal with later. We recommend a 5 to 1 by volume mix of vermiculite to portland cement.

This "void" can also turn into a pond trapping water if weep holes are not included. We also recommend elevating the insulation above the hearth slab to allow moisture an exit below the insulation.

I do not recommend wooden oven frames. However, there are some builds on our site that have used them.

[Golfpro2301]

Thanks Gulf

ingyess I should have clarified was a mixture. I was planning on using masonry cement but not sure how that would differ from portland. Mason I believe a little stronger but not sure if it matters

i have looked through a lot of builds but cant seem to find vesuvio style with a oven not domed shape. I may have to create an inner mold as I dont believe an IT would work for style I am looking for

i have built a lot of smokers during my competition years and continue do so for fun. Skillset isnt an issue. Just trying
to find during build photos of style I like to get ideas

agree on wood frame. Not best but I have a lot of pressure treated laying around. We simulated loads on design we came up with and withstands 23k lbs.

[david s]

Refractory cement is calcium aluminate whereas Portland cement is calcium silicate. The difference is that the calcium aluminate cement has a higher tolerance for heat. Unfortunately it is also extremely expensive. After freight I pay around 10x more than for Portland. It is also more difficult to work because of its extremely short working time and storage is a problem with it spoiling easily with any moisture, including high humidity. Its advantage apart from higher heat tolerance is that it develops full strength very early, meaning castings can be struck from their moulds earlier and extended damp curing is not required. For the service temperatures we use the homebrew has proved both economical and user friendly. although extended damp curing is required. Recipe (by volume): 3 parts sand,1 part Portland cement, 1 part hydrated lime, 1 part powdered clay.

[Golfpro2301]

For the perlite cement mix is it best to use portland cement or pre mix bags quickrete or does it matter?

finishing up frame and will likely have 4” hearth. Since I made corner stand with very little room around side of oven ill just fill whole thing with perlite mix

[Gulf]

Yes it matters greatly. Portland cement is just that, a cement. A cement that cements aggregate together. Quikcrete (concrete mix) has portland cement, sand, and rocks premixed in as an aggregate. No sand or rocks are wanted in a perlite or vermiculite insulation mix. Perlite or vermiculite is the only aggregate (other than sometimes a little clay) added to the insulation mix.

Note: Qikcrete bags many different mixes and products. Including "Portland Cement" Always read the label.

[Golfpro2301]

Thanks Gulf

Do you know of any threads on here that has a vesuvio/ napalino type build?

[david s]

Cement just binds the grains of perlite or aggregate together. The higher the proportion of cement, the stronger the result, but the poorer the insulating value (see chart). A 10:1 mix results in an insulating value around the same as ceramic fibre blanket with around 58% of the mass of a given volume from the cement and 42% from the perlite or vermiculite. For a 5:1 mix it's 74% and 26% respectively. So you decide whether you want strength or insulation. I've found a 10:1 mix about as lean as I can go and still have a strong enough result to render against. If you have plenty of blanket layers then you might decide that you want more strength in the vermicrete or perlcrete layer.

[david s]

Thanks Gulf

Do you know of any threads on here that has a vesuvio/ napalino type build?

I built a Vesuvio 160 build that could be similar.

[Gulf]

Thanks Gulf

Do you know of any threads on here that has a vesuvio/ napalino type build?

Okay. I think that I know what you are looking for now. The Vesuvio and Napalino ovens are finished ovens. You are not going to learn much from threads that just place these completed ovens on a stand. Both of these completed ovens have a kit oven core that can be purchased from Forno Bravo. The Completed Vesuvio has a Casa core. The Napalino has a Giardino core. Both of these kits are for sale on the Forno Bravo site. The specs and installation instructions and some videos are also available on the Forno Bravo site. You can also scroll through the Forrno Bravo Oven Installation Forum for the builds that you are looking for. But, along with Vesuvio and Napalino, look for Giardino and Casa.