Starting new 36" build

[deejayoh]

Re: Starting new 36" build

Getting closer. Looking back in round and level. I love that this thing is strong enough to stand on already.

[texman]

Re: Starting new 36" build

Man, that looks great! Wish I had an oven like that.
Have a good weekend and enjoy your accomplishments.
I will catch up soon.
Tracy

[deejayoh]

Re: Starting new 36" build

I really want to get this dome closed in over the holiday weekend. I bought another 35 bricks so I could do the plug and the outer arch. I am 1.5 chains and the plug away!

Tonight I was paying for past sins, doing as John suggested and trying to get this thing back in round and level. It is going pretty well, except I end up cutting a lot of custom bricks. Oh well. Should make the next chain easier, right?

In the first pic, you can see that the top of the chain is now level. Second shows it's now looking pretty round. If you look close at the right side of the picture, you can also see that I rigged up an IT to get things all back in order. It seems to be doing the trick.

[GianniFocaccia]

Re: Starting new 36" build

Dennis,
Nice recovery! When it's all said and done, no one notices minor imperfections, just the killer pizza! I would, however, take a minute to wipe (damp towel) the inside of your freshly-layed bricks once the mortar has firmed up enough to be wiped. This will leave you with a clean-looking joint as well as expose any brick faces that don't line up well with an adjacent brick.

Verrry nice, tight joints in your overhead shots. As each remaining course progresses, you may want to bring your dome back into round. You can do this by shaving some of the face of each brick (opposite of what you did to bring the low dome side level) that is closer to center, and adding some brick to the sides that are further from center. Uh, did that make any sense?
John

[Amac]

Re: Starting new 36" build

Ah, gotta love summer in Seattle. 8PM and still light enough to do whatever you want outside.

Latitude is an odd thing to like but I always did like the fact that at our latitude which is around 53? N (about 6? north of you) - we get nice long evenings after the spring equinox. Of course you have to pay back in the winter but I love the stretch in summer.

It looks great now Dennis and seems to be following your planned shape very well. I'm sure the inside is not that bad. Mine isn't great - I wore out some rags and designed some new grunge wear (nod to Seattle - the spiritual home) - see photo of the hen party line - my wife refused to model it ) but it was only to get rid of the more obvious stuff that I wouldn't fancy as pizza topping. Never used that acid or anything like that.
Our weather here is behaving funny this year. In March we had temeratures in the 20s - which is may or june temps. April was well april - unpredictable - and now May is in the 9s and 10s which should be March

[deejayoh]

Re: Starting new 36" build

Ah, gotta love summer in Seattle. 8PM and still light enough to do whatever you want outside. I just finished up working on the oven tonight. I only stopped because I ran out of mortar (and sand, and cement... gotta go to the supply store tomorrow)

I am about 2/3 through the 11th chain. It's going in well, but the dome has developed a flat spot on one side. Droops maybe 1/2 an inch? At this point, I am not going to worry about it unless someone tells me it is a big issue. That's the perils of not using an IT. If I had to to do it over again, I'd do a hemisphere. But the dome is pretty close to the shape and height I was targeting - and it looks like it's going to meet in the middle. So I am soldiering on.

I figure 2 more chains? The brick laying goes much faster now that I am over the arch. I am looking forward to closing this in.

FWIW, I don't think I will ever be posting a picture of the inside of my oven. I see these beautiful clean pictures of tightly fit bricks. Mine's a mess. Mortar drips all over the place. I don't know how you guys do it!

[deejayoh]

Re: Starting new 36" build

Well, when I got home last night - I took a level and checked the angle of my top chain - and then I checked my sketchup drawing to see where I should be at that point. Answer? I was at a 50 degree angle and I should have been at 56 degrees. Thanks to you, Aidan, for pointing out my pointy-ness. You have a really good eye for this stuff!

Then I mocked up a few bricks to see what sort of tilt I'd need to put on each chain to correct the error - and it looked pretty shabby. So I knocked out the bricks on the top chain. Most came off pretty easily since I'd only laid them in the last day or two. One of them came off with a chunk of the brick under it - so I did have to remove three of the bricks that were one chain deeper. I thought that was a disaster, and then I saw Tracy's post this afternoon. I guess I got off easily!

Anyway - I did a variant of what John suggested when I put them back in. I cut about a quarter inch wedge from the bottom of each brick (works out to a 6 degree angle), and then checked the amount of tilt I needed with a level and protractor to get it exactly right. I needed 3/8" in the back. Using this measure, the chain went back in really nicely. It did help that my girlfriend came over and cut all the bricks for me. I was much more productive!

Now I am about 60% through the next chain and I am right on target for the angle I wanted - right at 63 degrees. I'm not really even using the form anymore to check the angle any longer. It's easier for me to check the height of the grout joint on the back of each brick. That seems to be working perfectly. Things are looking much "domier"!

[GianniFocaccia]

Re: Starting new 36" build

My thought is to continue on building by shaving 1/8" off the top of each brick that you place on the 'high' side of your dome. After a course or two your are back to level.

When starting each new course, I leaned the first brick flush against the curve of my dome template to ensure the proper angle and that I was keeping in 'round'.
John

[texman]

Re: Starting new 36" build

Thanks Tracy. Good point about the inner edge being the key. I will check that tonight. Hard to get a level in there however...

Your comment about removing bricks resonates. Funny thing is, I knocked about 8 bricks off last night and re-layed them. So the picture I showed is actually the second try! In the last two chains I have put in, I have done a TON of rework. If I was getting paid by the hour, I'd fire myself.

yea, i would be starving to death as a bricklayer, too.
Use a framing square and measure from floor to inner edge of the top course and check the consistency of round (distance from wall) and the height from floor(level). If you have a short level (like 24") you should be able to spot check the inner edge in various places and find the lowest point and get an estimate of the error, if any. You can also cut a piece of cardboard in the correct size circle of where your inner edge is and see the error that way too. The cardboard will probably have a tilt and the center of circle can be checked to see if the it aligns with the center of the oven floor.
Still fun though, right?
Tracy

[deejayoh]

Re: Starting new 36" build

Dennis

I was off right next to arch and removed one brick on the left to correct. You are well above the arch now and IMO, i would stay the course at this point and correct from here up. I you custom cut the next course and correct here, the rest will be straight again and i dont think will weaken the dome or be visibly noticeable where you correct that high in the dome.

But, hey, i am on course 5 and redoing some of my problems i decided i cant live with because i dont want to fight them the rest of the way up the dome either and i dont want to look at every time i look in the dome. I have about 3/8" to correct from one side of dome to next. Some of that off level can be from bricks being slighty longer/or shorter than 1/2. The upper edge will fluctuate where as the lower/inner edge is the true place to check level. Mine is from not mixing mortar consistent to hold and not using the IT correctly. You gotta believe the thing. But i am on the 5th course, so i decided to correct as i go(i hope) I am not intimidated about removing bricks anymore, i just want to do it sooner than later, and get better so i dont need to. Best of luck and your build looks great.

Tracy

Thanks Tracy. Good point about the inner edge being the key. I will check that tonight. Hard to get a level in there however...

Your comment about removing bricks resonates. Funny thing is, I knocked about 8 bricks off last night and re-layed them. So the picture I showed is actually the second try! In the last two chains I have put in, I have done a TON of rework. If I was getting paid by the hour, I'd fire myself.

[deejayoh]

Re: Starting new 36" build

What I think I see in your dome is that the last three courses look like they are taking a cone shape rather that a dome shape - i.e they look straight and heading for a point rather than rounded and flattening out.. Maybe it's the photo but if so it would mean that you re not tilting the bricks enough. When you use an IT the clamp takes care of that tilt. Are you using shims?

Thanks Aidan. I see what you are saying about the "Cone shape" from looking at the picture.

I think I am ok but I will take a hard look at it when I get home.

Every time I finish a chain, I mock up the arc for the rest of the dome by laying up a cut brick for each chain on top of my arch form. I keep thinking "no way this thing is going to meet in the middle!", but based on that view, it looks like I am staying on the proper curve by tilting each brick about 3/8 inch per chain.

I've been managing the height of the tilt with just the mortar - no shims. That's probably how I got off level from side to side. I can see that the mortar gap on the bricks on the right side is much larger than on the left.

I will do another mockup tonight and maybe snap a picture to show what I am seeing. I have a sunny weekend in front of me with nothing else on my list of things to do - so I am hoping to make some good progress!

Dennis

[texman]

Re: Starting new 36" build

amac
Once again, you have the best eyes out there. I am sure the rest is ok too.

[texman]

Re: Starting new 36" build

Dennis

I was off right next to arch and removed one brick on the left to correct. You are well above the arch now and IMO, i would stay the course at this point and correct from here up. I you custom cut the next course and correct here, the rest will be straight again and i dont think will weaken the dome or be visibly noticeable where you correct that high in the dome.

But, hey, i am on course 5 and redoing some of my problems i decided i cant live with because i dont want to fight them the rest of the way up the dome either and i dont want to look at every time i look in the dome. I have about 3/8" to correct from one side of dome to next. Some of that off level can be from bricks being slighty longer/or shorter than 1/2. The upper edge will fluctuate where as the lower/inner edge is the true place to check level. Mine is from not mixing mortar consistent to hold and not using the IT correctly. You gotta believe the thing. But i am on the 5th course, so i decided to correct as i go(i hope) I am not intimidated about removing bricks anymore, i just want to do it sooner than later, and get better so i dont need to. Best of luck and your build looks great.

Tracy

[Amac]

Re: Starting new 36" build

If you look at the picture, you can see that the left side is lower than the right if you compare the outer edges. I think that the difference is about 3/8-1/2". I think I started dropping the angle of the bricks at the left edge of the arch, and continued around for about 5 or 6 bricks.

If it is just that the left is 3/8" lower than the right I would do nothing - since you are still circling in to the dome top and it really doesn't matter if that is slightly offset. I would think it is eminently correctible. I only put a level on a few times during the build. I was just trusting that the IT would keep it level, and apart from a bit of droop at the arch in general it did.

What I think I see in your dome is that the last three courses look like they are taking a cone shape rather that a dome shape - i.e they look straight and heading for a point rather than rounded and flattening out.. Maybe it's the photo but if so it would mean that you re not tilting the bricks enough. When you use an IT the clamp takes care of that tilt. Are you using shims?

[deejayoh]

Re: Starting new 36" build

Hey all you smart builders. I need some advice here. I got about 60% of my 9th chain in last night, and when I finished - I realized that I had gotten off level a bit. If you look at the picture, you can see that the left side is lower than the right if you compare the outer edges. I think that the difference is about 3/8-1/2". I think I started dropping the angle of the bricks at the left edge of the arch, and continued around for about 5 or 6 bricks.

I'm thinking about knocking out those bricks and re-laying them tonight, getting it leveled up. Does it make sense to do that, or can I just make it up in the next level?

I am worried that the error is just going to compound as I get closer to closing up the dome.

Appreciate any advice.

Dennis