36" build in Tallahassee - AKA Bruce's Folly

[Bec1208]

Re: 36" build in Tallahassee - AKA Bruce's Folly

Thanks everyone for jumping in. For anyone trying to learn from this, I assume that had I anticipated the problem I could have custom cut the length of the bricks as I worked my way up.

Sounds like consensus is forming on using a metal facing. Is there a hi-temp chalk or adhesive you would recommend to seal the edges? Would a Ceramic Fiber Rigidizer such as linked below help?

Ceramic Fiber Rigidizer

Thanks again, Bruce

[Bec1208]

Re: 36" build in Tallahassee - AKA Bruce's Folly

One more idea to toss out, how about using a castable to seal gaps?

Rutland 12.5 lbs Tub Castable Cement - Mix With Water (Fire Clay) 2200 degree: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific

[brickie in oz]

Re: 36" build in Tallahassee - AKA Bruce's Folly

Would a Ceramic Fiber Rigidizer such as linked below help?

Im at a loss as to why its called a rigidizer?
I used some on the inside of my gas forge and the fibres didnt real change much at all apart from going blue and wet.

[Bec1208]

Re: 36" build in Tallahassee - AKA Bruce's Folly

Im at a loss as to why its called a rigidizer?
I used some on the inside of my gas forge and the fibres didnt real change much at all apart from going blue and wet.

Thanks brickie, sounded too easy, any ideas to throw into the pot? Bruce

[brickie in oz]

Re: 36" build in Tallahassee - AKA Bruce's Folly

A flange like Stonecutter suggested would be ok, if you go the castable route you will need to make it 2" thick or more to stop it just crumbling and falling out, which will negate the thermal break all together.

[david s]

Re: 36" build in Tallahassee - AKA Bruce's Folly

If it were mine I'd try fitting some cardboard box cardboard in the gap, mortaring up to it, covering the fibre. When the mortar goes hard (24hrs) remove it and fill the gap it leaves with Sikafireate.This will then leave you with an insulated gap and an expansion joint.

[stonecutter]

Re: 36" build in Tallahassee - AKA Bruce's Folly

One last suggestion, then I'll shut up.

You can take OPC (Portland type I/II) & liquid acrylic ( Acryl 60 or similar) and mix them together to form a slurry paste.....the consistency of a very thick milkshake.

Paint this slurry onto the exposed insulation...you will see it suck in, and it will harden up nicely. Wait about 30 minutes between coats, I would think 3-5 will be good.

I make this paste when I set very smooth, saw cut, or hard stone when I need some extra 'grab'. I am confident this will work to seal off the insulation, without parging over it with a mortar mix. No disrespect to that suggestion, but as Brickie and I pointed out...it will not last, but fail.

I actually plan to do this myself, on the black stove gasket I used to 'point' the two thermal breaks in the vent arch. I saw lots of fibers come off just by handling it, so I want to seal it..obviously with something non-combustible.

[stonecutter]

Re: 36" build in Tallahassee - AKA Bruce's Folly

Just as a continuation of the last post.

Again, if this was my oven........
Once the insulation was sealed, I would make a copper panel to cover the side walls of the oven arch, stopping in height at the spring line of the arch ( where you don't see the insulation anymore..and it makes sense visually) and leave a 1 1/2" reveal on the inside, where your door flange will rest.

Personally, I think that the copper will go with the tone of the brick better than SS or Aluminum, and it will look intentional...rather than something done to cover up the insulation or the brick that didn't extend past the intrados of the outer arch.

At least in my mind it looks good.

[david s]

Re: 36" build in Tallahassee - AKA Bruce's Folly

One last suggestion, then I'll shut up.

You can take OPC (Portland type I/II) & liquid acrylic ( Acryl 60 or similar) and mix them together to form a slurry paste.....the consistency of a very thick milkshake.

Paint this slurry onto the exposed insulation...you will see it suck in, and it will harden up nicely. Wait about 30 minutes between coats, I would think 3-5 will be good.

I make this paste when I set very smooth, saw cut, or hard stone when I need some extra 'grab'. I am confident this will work to seal off the insulation, without parging over it with a mortar mix. No disrespect to that suggestion, but as Brickie and I pointed out...it will not last, but fail.

I actually plan to do this myself, on the black stove gasket I used to 'point' the two thermal breaks in the vent arch. I saw lots of fibers come off just by handling it, so I want to seal it..obviously with something non-combustible.

I use a similar technique with calcium aluminate based mortar. I wet the area first and wait 10 mins. While waiting I make up a thin slurry of calcium aluminate and water. In fact I sieve out all but the finest aggregate from a small quantity of castable, then paint this mixture to the area, wait another 10 mins then mortar to it. It works more often than not, but no guarantees.

[stonecutter]

Re: 36" build in Tallahassee - AKA Bruce's Folly

Slurry is straight opc and admix, no aggregate. I'm not trying to sell it...I just know what it can do. I think Ill put my words to action and paste the gaskets in my oven later today.

[Bec1208]

Re: 36" build in Tallahassee - AKA Bruce's Folly

Slurry is straight opc and admix, no aggregate. I'm not trying to sell it...I just know what it can do. I think Ill put my words to action and paste the gaskets in my oven later today.

I had an evaluation this am by a physical therapist to determine my wheelchair needs and was not able to review this morning's contributions until now. Comforting to know I have this much combined experience and practical problem solvong helping me get through this.

Stonecutter, I think you have a winning candidate for Plan A. Looks to be easily done and is a very practical approach. It will probably be tomorrow before I can give it a try. I have the arch forms back in and will try to finish the smoke chamber today. Bruce

[david s]

Re: 36" build in Tallahassee - AKA Bruce's Folly

Slurry is straight opc and admix, no aggregate. I'm not trying to sell it...I just know what it can do. I think Ill put my words to action and paste the gaskets in my oven later today.

In that position, the mouth of the oven, won't the heat destroy both the acrylic and the Portland?

[stonecutter]

Re: 36" build in Tallahassee - AKA Bruce's Folly

It may in the apex of the oven arch but I doubt the rest will reach high enough temps to degrade the slurry. Its not like a stucco coat anyway, the rope or insulation should draw in enough solids to encapsulate the fibers. Periodic recoating would be easy enough too...and a lot better than chipping and cleaning out a thin mortar parge

[Bec1208]

Re: 36" build in Tallahassee - AKA Bruce's Folly

It may in the apex of the oven arch but I doubt the rest will reach high enough temps to degrade the slurry. Its not like a stucco coat anyway, the rope or insulation should draw in enough solids to encapsulate the fibers. Periodic recoating would be easy enough too...and a lot better than chipping and cleaning out a thin mortar parge

I have a bag of type n masonry cement open (1/2 lime, 1/2 Portland). Can this be used with the acrylic or should I buy a bag of opc? Bruce

[stonecutter]

Re: 36" build in Tallahassee - AKA Bruce's Folly

Yep, type N will be fine for this application