A New Journey

[the_dr_masuess]

Re: A New Journey

Hello Loren,

My only other advice is to put at least 3? of insulation under the floor and do lots of research on this site (look for a thread called ?If you had the chance to rebuild your oven, what would you change? ? that will give you somemore ideas to think about). Pay particular attention to the inner arch to dome transition. Good Luck with your build.

Regards,
ATK

In regards to the insulation on the floor. I acquired some insulating firebricks from the government that were used at their base out in Dugway Utah. They can be heated up to like 3000 degrees on one side and they will be cool on the other. They are the same size as a standard firebrick. Needless to say they are sweet.

inner arch transition discussed in first reply.

[UtahBeehiver]

Re: A New Journey

Loren,

Too bad Karangi Dude is no longer with us. His was a 48 incher full hemisphere. He could of given you some insight since he not only did pizzas but also baked and roasted "alot". He even does a WFO cooking school in Aussie land. For you, do what works for you. Since I built a hemi dome can't comment on how to build a flatter dome but would wonder due to shape if you would have to reinforce the walls due to increase outward pressure.

[the_dr_masuess]

Re: A New Journey

I'll probably have to stick to the Hemi Dome plan unless someone can explain to me how else I would support that outward pressure on the walls from a flatter top.

[stonecutter]

Re: A New Journey

I'll probably have to stick to the Hemi Dome plan unless someone can explain to me how else I would support that outward pressure on the walls from a flatter top.

A couple different ways, depending on the desired diameter of the oven.

One common way with elliptical domes, is a steel band around the top third of the soldier course.

Another way would be to use a reinforced cladding, but it adds some mass to the oven, which isn't always a bad thing, depending on your brick thickness.

[Tscarborough]

Re: A New Journey

Another way is to use a low compressive strength insulation between the dome and the exterior finish wall, like perlcrete at 10-1.

[the_dr_masuess]

Re: A New Journey

Tscar and SC, Do you think the effectiveness/efficiency of the oven goes up if I lower the ceiling or is it really not a huge difference?

[deejayoh]

Re: A New Journey

I'll probably have to stick to the Hemi Dome plan unless someone can explain to me how else I would support that outward pressure on the walls from a flatter top.

My $0.02 - It's an arch that only needs to support itself. (actually, it's a dome - which is way stronger than an arch...) If you were building a bridge or a cathedral, or wanted to store your bowling ball collection on top of the dome - I think you might need to worry. For the size and scale of what we build here, I have never seen a dome collapse unless the builder made mistakes in construction or with what they used for mortar.

[the_dr_masuess]

Re: A New Journey

Thanks deejay. I agree... and nothing will be stored on top... with that said I have also been thinking about the interior arch.

The width of the arch does not matter but mainly the height... right? I have been thinking about widening the opening a little bit from about 20 to a little bit larger. After seeing the thread about the old Baking oven having a huge opening I thought having a wider opening would be pretty cool.

Sorry for all the random thoughts and questions but I really appreciate the help and suggestions from all of you.

[stonecutter]

Re: A New Journey

Tscar and SC, Do you think the effectiveness/efficiency of the oven goes up if I lower the ceiling or is it really not a huge difference?

The advantage of a low dome is in baking Neapolitan pizza...not that it can't be done in an oven with a higher ceiling.

My advice to people with your dilemma, is to build what you are comfortable building. It's not like this has to be the one and only oven you ever build. Unless you want to have what is considered an ideal oven for Neapolitan pie, then a hemispherical dome is just fine.

[stonecutter]

Re: A New Journey

My $0.02 - It's an arch that only needs to support itself. (actually, it's a dome - which is way stronger than an arch...) If you were building a bridge or a cathedral, or wanted to store your bowling ball collection on top of the dome - I think you might need to worry. For the size and scale of what we build here, I have never seen a dome collapse unless the builder made mistakes in construction or with what they used for mortar.

In my experience, most ovens under 40" have sufficient thickness in the soldier to counteract the lateral forces of a low dome. It's best practice to reinforce a Neapolitan ( elliptical ) because the thermal cycling effects the way the load is distributed differently than a static structure.

[ATK406]

Re: A New Journey

Hello Loren,
Here is a link to a thread that discussed dome geometry in some detail, albeit it is probably more academic than anything else (i.e. they all work very well);
Mathematical analysis of dome geometry - Forno Bravo Forum: The Wood-Fired Oven Community

I have some leftover firebricks. Someday maybe I'll run an experiment and lay them out on the floor, raising my floor by 2.5 inches, and see if it makes any difference. To be honest I hope it doesn't, then I could just let it go...which is what I should do anyway.

As stated by so many before...build what it "right" for you. With the exception of those unfortunate souls who have built ovens without insulation, this website is nothing if not a testament to the many different ways that these ovens can be built and that there is very little you can do wrong. It is a "Journey" after all. And what a fine journey it is. You will be astounded with the results. I only suggest that you keep your eyes open and consider your alternatives along the way.

Good Luck,
Regards,
AT

[Tscarborough]

Re: A New Journey

It allows for a better heat balance for very rapid cooking, sub 90 seconds. Other than that it doesn't really matter that much.

[deejayoh]

Re: A New Journey

Hardest part of build a low dome is that you can't use a standard IT. You either need to mount it off center on a lazy-susan like device, drop the pivot so that the IT starts below the floor, or have a way to crank the IT length back by a little bit for each layer of bricks. Or you can use a plywood form like I did. All of these will work, but they're bit more of a challenge to those of us who probably will only build one oven in their lives!

Agree with Stonecutter that Neo oven is great for pizza, but in reality you may never notice the difference when you have no point of comparison! I built my oven 18" high for a 39" diameter. So it's about 1.5" inches off a true dome. I bet I would have never noticed the difference if I had built a truly hemispheric dome.

As for the door, 63%ish on the height and go wild on the width! A wider door and shallower throat make it easier to access more of the oven with your peel. That is a change I might notice if I ever build another one of these.

[wotavidone]

Re: A New Journey

Loren,

Too bad Karangi Dude is no longer with us.

What you mean? I must have missed something - he hasn't passed away has he?

[Gulf]

Re: A New Journey

What you mean? I must have missed something - he hasn't passed away has he?

No, thank god, that he is fine . Just on a "temporary" sabbatical, I hope!