A New Journey

[the_dr_masuess]

Re: A New Journey

Thank you all for your tips and suggestions. I'll give it some thought. My IT is adjustable but I'll read over the math page and then make a final decision

On Wednesday I poured my Counter and filled almost all the rest of my cores needed to fill. I only have a remainder of about 6 cores left which should be about 4 bags of Concrete. On Wednesday I used 39, 80 LB bags of cement mix to fill the remainder of the cores and pour the counter. By the time I end with these last cores I will have used about 55, 80 LB bags of cement in addition to the 4 yards I used to pour the Pads for the Oven/grill island

We also moved the grill island out on to its pad. I will have to make a small adjustment to one of the bottom supports so that my electrical will fit through the bottom to move it in to its final resting spot.

Today I am going to remove the forms and pour the final cores. I will also take my template out on to the newly poured counter and get all my insulation bricks and Firebricks layed out for the floor of the oven.

[kanoer54]

Re: A New Journey

Good thread. I may have missed something along the way, or gotten off subject, but...... I did for my first WFO, a build which had a 39 " diameter and a 15 inch dome height, not the typical ratio. (Totally inexperienced builder). Guess it was for the challenge which i wanted. I did the lazy susan type IT which wasn't any problem. I wasn't sure why I did this, except for something off the normal build. (I was green and probably still am). In the big picture I probably would not have noticed any energy efficiency difference regarding dome width to height ratio. The one big thing I did follow was the inner arch height/width ratio which I think is a major element in the overall WFO efficiency. Another thing which I did was to over insulate.....no such thing as too much insulation....top nor bottom.

jon

I am certainly looking forward to another WFO build next fall.

[UtahBeehiver]

Re: A New Journey

Doug pulled all of his threads off the forum a while back so we lost a great build and cooking resource. I got an email from him the other day and he still continues to teach WFO cooking classes. Like Gulf say, maybe he will come back some day.

[Gulf]

Re: A New Journey

What you mean? I must have missed something - he hasn't passed away has he?

No, thank god, that he is fine . Just on a "temporary" sabbatical, I hope!

[wotavidone]

Re: A New Journey

Loren,

Too bad Karangi Dude is no longer with us.

What you mean? I must have missed something - he hasn't passed away has he?

[deejayoh]

Re: A New Journey

Hardest part of build a low dome is that you can't use a standard IT. You either need to mount it off center on a lazy-susan like device, drop the pivot so that the IT starts below the floor, or have a way to crank the IT length back by a little bit for each layer of bricks. Or you can use a plywood form like I did. All of these will work, but they're bit more of a challenge to those of us who probably will only build one oven in their lives!

Agree with Stonecutter that Neo oven is great for pizza, but in reality you may never notice the difference when you have no point of comparison! I built my oven 18" high for a 39" diameter. So it's about 1.5" inches off a true dome. I bet I would have never noticed the difference if I had built a truly hemispheric dome.

As for the door, 63%ish on the height and go wild on the width! A wider door and shallower throat make it easier to access more of the oven with your peel. That is a change I might notice if I ever build another one of these.

[Tscarborough]

Re: A New Journey

It allows for a better heat balance for very rapid cooking, sub 90 seconds. Other than that it doesn't really matter that much.

[ATK406]

Re: A New Journey

Hello Loren,
Here is a link to a thread that discussed dome geometry in some detail, albeit it is probably more academic than anything else (i.e. they all work very well);
Mathematical analysis of dome geometry - Forno Bravo Forum: The Wood-Fired Oven Community

I have some leftover firebricks. Someday maybe I'll run an experiment and lay them out on the floor, raising my floor by 2.5 inches, and see if it makes any difference. To be honest I hope it doesn't, then I could just let it go...which is what I should do anyway.

As stated by so many before...build what it "right" for you. With the exception of those unfortunate souls who have built ovens without insulation, this website is nothing if not a testament to the many different ways that these ovens can be built and that there is very little you can do wrong. It is a "Journey" after all. And what a fine journey it is. You will be astounded with the results. I only suggest that you keep your eyes open and consider your alternatives along the way.

Good Luck,
Regards,
AT

[stonecutter]

Re: A New Journey

My $0.02 - It's an arch that only needs to support itself. (actually, it's a dome - which is way stronger than an arch...) If you were building a bridge or a cathedral, or wanted to store your bowling ball collection on top of the dome - I think you might need to worry. For the size and scale of what we build here, I have never seen a dome collapse unless the builder made mistakes in construction or with what they used for mortar.

In my experience, most ovens under 40" have sufficient thickness in the soldier to counteract the lateral forces of a low dome. It's best practice to reinforce a Neapolitan ( elliptical ) because the thermal cycling effects the way the load is distributed differently than a static structure.

[stonecutter]

Re: A New Journey

Tscar and SC, Do you think the effectiveness/efficiency of the oven goes up if I lower the ceiling or is it really not a huge difference?

The advantage of a low dome is in baking Neapolitan pizza...not that it can't be done in an oven with a higher ceiling.

My advice to people with your dilemma, is to build what you are comfortable building. It's not like this has to be the one and only oven you ever build. Unless you want to have what is considered an ideal oven for Neapolitan pie, then a hemispherical dome is just fine.

[the_dr_masuess]

Re: A New Journey

Thanks deejay. I agree... and nothing will be stored on top... with that said I have also been thinking about the interior arch.

The width of the arch does not matter but mainly the height... right? I have been thinking about widening the opening a little bit from about 20 to a little bit larger. After seeing the thread about the old Baking oven having a huge opening I thought having a wider opening would be pretty cool.

Sorry for all the random thoughts and questions but I really appreciate the help and suggestions from all of you.

[deejayoh]

Re: A New Journey

I'll probably have to stick to the Hemi Dome plan unless someone can explain to me how else I would support that outward pressure on the walls from a flatter top.

My $0.02 - It's an arch that only needs to support itself. (actually, it's a dome - which is way stronger than an arch...) If you were building a bridge or a cathedral, or wanted to store your bowling ball collection on top of the dome - I think you might need to worry. For the size and scale of what we build here, I have never seen a dome collapse unless the builder made mistakes in construction or with what they used for mortar.

[the_dr_masuess]

Re: A New Journey

Tscar and SC, Do you think the effectiveness/efficiency of the oven goes up if I lower the ceiling or is it really not a huge difference?

[Tscarborough]

Re: A New Journey

Another way is to use a low compressive strength insulation between the dome and the exterior finish wall, like perlcrete at 10-1.

[stonecutter]

Re: A New Journey

I'll probably have to stick to the Hemi Dome plan unless someone can explain to me how else I would support that outward pressure on the walls from a flatter top.

A couple different ways, depending on the desired diameter of the oven.

One common way with elliptical domes, is a steel band around the top third of the soldier course.

Another way would be to use a reinforced cladding, but it adds some mass to the oven, which isn't always a bad thing, depending on your brick thickness.