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It's time to go Vertical

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  • Re: It's time to go Vertical

    Originally posted by RCLake View Post
    Sometimes the terms bevel and tampered get mixed up. I have been beveling both sides using Jim's bevel and angle calulations - eyeballing it versus true measurement. When I say tampering I'm meaning cutting part of the bottom of the brick off, I did this on row 4.
    I've also lifted the back of each row up about 3/8" so far. May increase this to 1/2" the rest of the way or at least tamper one more row.
    RC,
    Your post this morning reminded me that I owed you a graphic on the bevels. Attached is an illustration of how I took on this pain in the butt.

    First I filled the saw table trough with mortar, let set over night and then ran the blade through to create a "trough slot" to hold the metal stop (to be mentioned next). Filling with mortar for me also made it easier to clean the saw and caused no problems with saw operation.

    Next I picked up a piece of 3" flat steel from HD and cut it into 6.5", 10", 10" lengths using my trusty $19 grinder (with metal cutting disk). The 6.5" piece I used as a stop to the cutting edge; put it in place, shoved the brick against it, removed the metal stop while holding brick in place and made the cut. More than doubled my cutting spead.

    The two ten inch pieces I connected horizontally by welding in place two hinges. This was done to create the angle guide for the last few courses when they get fairly large. The hinges were skewed in placement just slightly from one another so that there was considerable binding when trying to open and close the guide so the angle wouldn't change with multiple bricks being place against it over time. But for most courses this tool was used upside down (face down on the table as pictured) resting against the back stop of the table and slid under the brick towards or away from the pivot point of the brick to create the desired bevel angle. Once the angle was determined it was clamped in place with a 3" spring clamp (not pictured but noted - knew I forgot something)

    On the same trip to HD I picked up the protractor pictured - an indispensible tool for this project and feature in many posts on this forum. I first placed the protractor on the table, used the little red arrow slide on its face to mark the angle of the table and then used it on top of the brick to determine the angle for the bevel by adding whatever angle I was looking for to the red arrow position. By the way I wasn't going for the 3 decimel accuracy as my chart might suggest just to the nearest ditdat on the face of the protractor.

    Once I was happy with the bevel angle and the hinged steel was clamped in place the process was simply to put the small stop in the trough slot slap a brick against it (I was angling each brick so full flat face against steel) hold the brick firmly in place while you remove the stop and cut. Zippy quick.

    One caution, at certain bevel angles inorder to hold the brick in place on the steel your fingers will be fairly close to the blade.

    Also because the larger bevels are done on so few bricks you could probably get by without the hinges and use something else for the jig on the last couple of courses if you don't have a welder hanging around. So for the most part with just the protractor, a little bit of mortar in the trough, and a couple pieces of flat steel, you're good to go.

    Jim
    Last edited by jcg31; 02-03-2008, 10:09 AM.

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    • Re: It's time to go Vertical

      Jim, I was not as in depth to beleling the side (top to bottom edge). I took pieces to the dome, found the gap at bottom, then marked the top of the brick to cut. I then would go to the wet saw, grab a scrap piece of brick and lift the brick to desired height on the edge for cutting. So far it works, and does not take long. Primitive but simple. You are more savvy with tools and technology, so you are more at home with your way. Love the images!
      An excellent pizza is shared with the ones you love!

      Acoma's Tuscan:
      http://www.fornobravo.com/forum/f8/a...scan-2862.html

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      • Re: It's time to go Vertical

        Jim
        I'm doing it conceptually like you but different. First I've cut the bricks in half versus the angle like you did. And you can see from the first picture I have a stop quide at 4.5" on each side. I use the c clamp for the angle cut and I have 1/4" plywood riser by each stop for the bevel cut. So I do compound cuts on each side. So far no measurement just eyeballing and checking for fit. I did the cuts for row 6 & 7 in the garage because of the weather. I had to modify the cuts for row 6 but row 7 was pretty good.
        Started to cut row 8 the same (the bevel angle isn't that much difference) and the cut seems to fit nicely. The second picture just shows a brick placed on it.

        HOWEVER I'm noticing much more of a gap underneath the front of the brick. Is this the place people have started going to cut the full bricks in thirds?
        RCLake

        "It's time to go Vertical"
        Oven Thread

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        • Re: It's time to go Vertical

          Ya, you could do that but I think it would drive you nuts. I used partials only when the joints were threatening to run across courses. I thought for a breif moment about cutting the bottoms to close the gap but then regained my sanity. In the end it didn't seem to matter much astetically and structually it doesn't matter at all.

          Course 8 eh, tell me how it feels to blow past the arch without having to stop for tie ins.

          Jim

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          • Re: It's time to go Vertical

            Originally posted by jcg31 View Post
            Ya, you could do that but I think it would drive you nuts. I used partials only when the joints were threatening to run across courses. I thought for a breif moment about cutting the bottoms to close the gap but then regained my sanity. In the end it didn't seem to matter much astetically and structually it doesn't matter at all.

            Course 8 eh, tell me how it feels to blow past the arch without having to stop for tie ins.

            Jim
            I came to that decision as well, as least for now. I started row 8 and mixed up enough mortar for about dozen bricks ( at least at the rate till now). I used 1/2" gap in the back so figured it would take more mortar but I only got 5 bricks in. I'm still at 21" from center, so probably won't hit the 20" target, but it will still cook, I hope.
            RCLake

            "It's time to go Vertical"
            Oven Thread

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            • Re: It's time to go Vertical

              Well I was finally able to do a complete CIRCLE. No more arch. I have row 8 at 21" from center but as you can see from the second picture the arch area is a little lower than the rest. Oh what to do - go on to the 9th I guess

              I was pleased not to have to worry about the arch tie-in but having it a little oblong will have to thought through.

              I started cutting row 9 and to keep it at 21" I would have a 1" gap at the back I decided to taper the bottom and I think I can get to less than 20 3/4" with a 3/8" gap in the back.

              This next level is starting to get STEEP! Patience Patience.
              RCLake

              "It's time to go Vertical"
              Oven Thread

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              • Re: It's time to go Vertical

                R.C.,
                I think it looks great! I see the dip in front and I don't think it will be a deal. Mine had a little something like that, but it just sort of went away as I went up.

                dusty

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                • Re: It's time to go Vertical

                  Wow, you're really moving along - looking good! Don't worry about the dip - I had some similar problems too but it seems that once you hit complete circle rows, as you have, you find ways to compensate and like Dusty says, they eventually even out. As for the steepness, it does slow things down a bit - a trade off against the smaller rows. That's about where I started using the exercise ball for a form (at least it got used for something that way!) ...

                  Sarah

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                  • Re: It's time to go Vertical

                    Spent some time today and did row 9, it gets quite steep at this point. Surprisingly, I didn't seem to have an issue with slippage, my guide stick is now at 20 5/8". To get there from 21", I tapered the bottom of the bricks about 1/2" and only had to lift the back up slightly. I was worried I was making a tepee versus a dome, but I think it is coming together.
                    Tried fixing the oblong part by the arch and that took some extra mortar, but I think it's getting better.
                    RCLake

                    "It's time to go Vertical"
                    Oven Thread

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                    • Re: It's time to go Vertical

                      I can see by the picture I need to get in there and do some cleaning. Then see if I can get mortar into some of those inverted "V"s. At this stage, it is no more getting in from the top - I guess I'll be on my back crawling on the floor
                      I seem to be now working completely bent over at this stage.
                      Jim, I stopped by HD yesterday and got that angle finder, so far by eyeballing it I wasn't to far off your chart. I think it will come in handy from now on. It is hard enough reading if its 6 or 7 degrees, impossible for 6.6.
                      I can see I'll need extra bricks, probably have enough for the next two rows.
                      RCLake

                      "It's time to go Vertical"
                      Oven Thread

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                      • Re: It's time to go Vertical

                        RC,
                        Just wait until you get mortar all over the angle finder and you can't see the angle at all. You try to wipe it off, but it just smears, and you still can't see the angle. Then your back starts screaming...... Geeze, I miss that!
                        GJBingham
                        -----------------------------------
                        Everyone makes mistakes. The trick is to make mistakes when nobody is looking.

                        -

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                        • Re: It's time to go Vertical

                          RC, how many bricks to complete 9? I would suggest finishing th e mortaring inside, cleaning up, then going to 10. Looks like all is going at a nice pace for you.
                          An excellent pizza is shared with the ones you love!

                          Acoma's Tuscan:
                          http://www.fornobravo.com/forum/f8/a...scan-2862.html

                          Comment


                          • Re: It's time to go Vertical

                            Originally posted by gjbingham View Post
                            RC,
                            Geeze, I miss that!
                            I guess i do too!
                            My thread:
                            http://www.fornobravo.com/forum/f8/d...ress-2476.html
                            My costs:
                            http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?k...Xr0fvgxuh4s7Hw
                            My pics:
                            http://picasaweb.google.com/dawatsonator

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                            • Re: It's time to go Vertical

                              RC, I used my daughter for the cleaning and pointing of the interior, she is a skinny little thing (not like dad) and slid in without issue. No, there were no child labor laws broken - she is 24. I figured she owed me a bit (much financial assistance and now nursing school). I was surprised, she obviously paid more attention over the years than I thought...excellent job with little coaching.

                              RT

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                              • Re: It's time to go Vertical

                                George, RT,

                                Take a hint from somebody who has ruined many torpedo levels, angle finders, etc., etc., with mortar: these things really are waterproof. Just swish them around in a bucket of clean water from time to time to get the mortar off before it sets. Doh, wouldn't like to say how long it took for me to learn that.

                                Jim
                                "Made are tools, and born are hands"--William Blake, 1757-1827

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