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42" build in McPherson KS

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  • #76
    I am going to take SableSprings advice and add a thermal gap between my floor and landing. On the landing side of the thermal break I will have straight bricks instead of the herringbone pattern. Should the bricks on the landing floor still be fire bricks or does it matter?

    UtahBeehiver I was looking through your photo album (again) and came across the photo attached below... is this your thermal/expansion break? What material did you use there?

    The other photo I am attaching here shows where I plan to cut my floor bricks to add the gap. The way things will fall, I think i will be an inch or so behind the front of my inner arch, but I think any door that I would design would cover the gap well enough to isolate the two sides from each other so with the door on I will not be heating the landing with ambient air, and on the other side of the coin I won't have any of my heated floor bricks outside the door acting as a heat sink. Does that seem like an ok location for the gap? Am I overthinking this again?

    After doing some more reading on the forum I think that I've decided that my planned opening is too wide (about 26") so I will be bringing that down to about 22" so I don't lose too much heat.

    Thanks in advance!
    Last edited by slschoming; 06-26-2019, 12:04 PM.
    - seth s.

    my build (in progress)

    Google Photo Album: https://photos.app.goo.gl/k4JW8jut8cWxFpjM9

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    • #77
      The thermal break is a scrap piece of SS rectangular thin wall tubing. Channel will work as well. I chose SS due to the lower K value vs carbon steel or aluminum. It is stuffed with leftover ceramic blanket. The arc of the IT should intersect the inside of the inner arch brick at the edge of the arch form and dome wall or it will be harder to mate the inner arch and dome walls together and keep circular.

      Russell
      Google Photo Album [https://photos.google.com/share/AF1Q...JneXVXc3hVNHd3/]

      Comment


      • #78
        Originally posted by UtahBeehiver View Post
        The arc of the IT should intersect the inside of the inner arch brick at the edge of the arch form and dome wall or it will be harder to mate the inner arch and dome walls together and keep circular.
        UtahBeehiver Gotcha, thanks for catching that.. I was planning the opposite.. to have the IT arc intersect the OUTside of my inner arch... I will do some more measuring and try to get that all worked out as I decrease the width of my opening / landing.

        I hope I left myself enough room at the front edge of my hearth for my vent, etc.. it looks like I will only have about 10.5 inches between the outside of my inner arch and the edge of the hearth

        Thanks!
        Last edited by slschoming; 06-26-2019, 12:31 PM.
        - seth s.

        my build (in progress)

        Google Photo Album: https://photos.app.goo.gl/k4JW8jut8cWxFpjM9

        Comment


        • #79
          Originally posted by slschoming View Post

          UtahBeehiver Gotcha, thanks for catching that.. I was planning the opposite.. to have the IT arc intersect the OUTside of my inner arch... I will do some more measuring and try to get that all worked out as I decrease the width of my opening / landing.

          I hope I left myself enough room at the front edge of my hearth for my vent, etc.. it looks like I will only have about 10.5 inches between the outside of my inner arch and the edge of the hearth

          Thanks!
          I have a short landing too...I was following another builder on this site who did this as well and his point was that it's easier to work the oven with a shorter landing so I think you'll be all good IMO...keep up the good work! Zoo

          Comment


          • #80
            Originally posted by david s View Post

            Fire wil push out the water, but if theres plenty of it then it can take more time than youd think. Your oven will still work , but as water conducts heat well, wet or moist insulation doesnt insulate so well. In my build (igloo) wet insulation is easily indicated by holding a hand to the outside of the dome after the oven has been fired for around an hour. If the insulation is not dry it can feel hot to the touch. If dry it feels either stone cold or slightly warm. This test of course would vary from oven to oven and many factors determine rate of heat penetration. Remember that any sealing you do to prevent water entry also prevents its escape. This is why drain holes in the supporting slab greatly assist in water removal. Im also a believer in having an escape in the upper area of the dome (if building an igloo) which acts like a hole in a saucepan lid, both for pressure release and moisture escape.
            We live in the tropics and really high humidity even without rain for a week or so will be enough to reduce the ovens insulation capacity. If you were to use the oven daily, then of course moisture would never get a chance to make a problem, but as we usually use our ovens occasionally were often pushing moisture out. So providing pathways out is just as important an preventing its entry.
            ive been doing some tests on absorbency and drying of various insulation materials and my cal sil board absorbs 144% of its mass in a 5 sec immersion and a whopping 318% in 24 hr immersion in water. Using foamglass on the bottom is a good idea as it does not absorb water.
            Thanks for the advice...I think I'm gonna do some weep holes in the slab...my one question, and this may be a dumb one, will drilling weep holes in the slab weaken it? I've got a literal TONS of weight on top of my hearth, which weighs a crap ton too, so I'm paranoid to do anything that will weaken the hearth...Thoughts?

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            • #81
              Originally posted by SableSprings View Post

              Zoo - since you are putting in dry CalSil board, don't have weep holes, and have provided a water barrier on the bottom and sides of the oven insulation base, your primary focus is to keep water from entering through dome/sides/perimeter cracks in the outside render. The best option is to build an external cover/structure for your oven. Lots of pretty straight forward examples in the forum, bottom line is that you are trying to create a situation in which water is unlikely to get on or even near your oven. Installing a small, dome vent also helps allow moisture to escape from the upper insulation after periods of sitting in high humidity climates/situations.

              I also favor the larger enclosure concept for WFO projects simply because it extends the time the oven can be used, extends the time the person working the oven stays dry in inclement weather, creates a dry place/space for food prep/serving next to the oven, and gives guests a shelter from the storm (until the adult beverages kick in and they don't really care anymore ). Obviously in addition, my personal bias is to screen a larger enclosure to exclude hungry yellow jackets, mosquitoes, and annoying flies while using the oven and entertaining.
              Thanks for the advice!, much appreciated!! Zoo

              Comment


              • #82
                Originally posted by zoolander View Post

                I have a short landing too...I was following another builder on this site who did this as well and his point was that it's easier to work the oven with a shorter landing so I think you'll be all good IMO...keep up the good work! Zoo
                Hey zoolander , check out fxpose's cast vent:

                https://community.fornobravo.com/for.../page5?t=12677

                I might explore something like that for my short landing.

                Happy building!
                - seth s.

                my build (in progress)

                Google Photo Album: https://photos.app.goo.gl/k4JW8jut8cWxFpjM9

                Comment


                • #83
                  In the photo below I have ROUGHLY marked out my new plan. The blue arc is roughly the curve of the IT and the red lines are to show how much landing width I will be reducing to get down to about 22 inches wide. Where the red and blue intersect is where the inside of my inner arch should begin and I have drawn the portion of the landing that will be covered by the inner arch in green. This leaves me more area for a proper vent than I was thinking yesterday.

                  The diagonal of a 4.5 inch square (marked in yellow) is 6.364 inches and I have another 4 inches between what I have laid out in this picture and the edge of my hearth. I am estimating about 14 - 15 inches left between the outer edge of my inner arch and the edge of my hearth.

                  UtahBeehiver Does this seem like I have a better understanding than I did yesterday? Does anything stand out to you as incorrect?

                  Thanks!
                  - seth s.

                  my build (in progress)

                  Google Photo Album: https://photos.app.goo.gl/k4JW8jut8cWxFpjM9

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    It looks like I will have 13.75 inches for my vent/landing area.
                    - seth s.

                    my build (in progress)

                    Google Photo Album: https://photos.app.goo.gl/k4JW8jut8cWxFpjM9

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      The inner arch alignment looks good now. I suggest that you make your IT adjustable and the key is that the centerline of the pivot point at the floor hits the centerline of the brick, ie if your brick is 2.5" thick then the centerline of the IT from the pivot point will should hit the brick at the 1.25" mark. There was a recent non-weld wood IT that was done recently that was adjustable. You do not say how high your arch is but it should be abt 63-65% of the dome height, width is not as critical. If you are doing a tapered inner arch (recommended), then you will be using full length bricks on arch not halves, the full length give you material to work with. The top dead center of the arch will be the longest brick, tapered inner arch make the dome to arch transition much easier.
                      Russell
                      Google Photo Album [https://photos.google.com/share/AF1Q...JneXVXc3hVNHd3/]

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        Seth, If you have not built your inner arch form yet now would be a good time. You can set the form in the location you have chosen for your arch, set a brick on the top of the form, and use your IT to make sure the dome and arch will mate properly.
                        Last edited by JRPizza; 06-27-2019, 07:23 PM.
                        My build thread
                        http://www.fornobravo.com/community/...h-corner-build

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                        • #87
                          My build thread
                          http://www.fornobravo.com/community/...h-corner-build

                          Comment


                          • #88
                            Originally posted by JRPizza View Post
                            Seth, If you have not built your inner arch form yet now would be a good time. You can set the form in the location you have chosen for your arch, set a brick on the top of the form, and use your IT to make sure the dome and arch will mate properly.
                            I have not built it yet. I am thinking it will be 3 bricks of straight wall with a partial arch on top.

                            Originally posted by UtahBeehiver View Post
                            The inner arch alignment looks good now. I suggest that you make your IT adjustable and the key is that the centerline of the pivot point at the floor hits the centerline of the brick, ie if your brick is 2.5" thick then the centerline of the IT from the pivot point will should hit the brick at the 1.25" mark. There was a recent non-weld wood IT that was done recently that was adjustable. You do not say how high your arch is but it should be abt 63-65% of the dome height, width is not as critical. If you are doing a tapered inner arch (recommended), then you will be using full length bricks on arch not halves, the full length give you material to work with. The top dead center of the arch will be the longest brick, tapered inner arch make the dome to arch transition much easier.
                            I think my center / pivot point is at floor level, and I did make sure the bracket is centering my bricks to the dowel. I grabbed some stuff at the hardware store on the way home yesterday and will work on making an adjustable version.

                            My opening is going to be 13.5" and my dome height is 21" (64.3%). I would like a little wider opening like I had originally planned (25-26"), but I saw that apagios warned about losing too much heat with a wide opening. He uses loose cut fire bricks on the sides of his inner arch to slow down the outflow of heat when doing pizza, which I think is a great solution, I just think I would be constantly knocking those over with my peel and having to get gloves on to put them back up. So I am currently planning to narrow it down to about 22 inches wide.

                            Apagios, have you had any luck with a turkey?
                            - seth s.

                            my build (in progress)

                            Google Photo Album: https://photos.app.goo.gl/k4JW8jut8cWxFpjM9

                            Comment


                            • #89
                              You're stressing over the width too much. I have a 42" oven with an inner arch width of 20" and have no issues with getting a large turkey in the oven. Here is a pic of how the IT is used to do a taper arch like the style you are talking about. It came from Mr.Chipster.
                              Last edited by UtahBeehiver; 06-28-2019, 11:35 AM.
                              Russell
                              Google Photo Album [https://photos.google.com/share/AF1Q...JneXVXc3hVNHd3/]

                              Comment


                              • #90
                                Originally posted by UtahBeehiver View Post
                                I have a 42" oven with an inner arch width of 20" and have no issues with getting a large turkey in the oven.
                                Good to know! Thanks Russell!
                                - seth s.

                                my build (in progress)

                                Google Photo Album: https://photos.app.goo.gl/k4JW8jut8cWxFpjM9

                                Comment

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