Dreaming of oven for many years, now want to start

[JRPizza]

JR-
I get it now and I prefer to lessen my opening as well, but I have a built consequence. For even inch I shorten the opening, I move outward on the radius about 1" opr more. So by shortening by 2" where the opening intersects the walls. I have not enough allowance to have my entrance chamber move outward further. as it will overhang the slab. So I am left with a decision a) to move the opening inward and as such, the opening will not be flush with the walls, it will be 1.5" inward of the walls. (red marks on board) or b) make my oven smaller :>( or c) keep a larger opening. Anything you suggest i consider?

Hmm, so what exact dimensions are your door form built to, accounting for shims?

[JRPizza]

Here is an iso view of a 36" oven with the arch placed so the TDC brick is in a good place. You can also see where the bottom of the arch intersects the dome. There is I think 13.5 inches for the landing plus another 2.5 for a decorative arch (which I didn't use). Does this look like what you are planning?

[golfguiedo]

Happy Sunday morning fellas in this new C19 world. My dimensions are presently 19" x 9.25" which will give me the 11.7" height with the shims/bricks underneath.
My entrance location will result in the dome radius being 1" inset at the TDC position. I'll have ot deal with a slightly smaller keystone bricks on this top row.
If this is going to be a catastrophy please let me know as I do intend to start mortering in the bottom rows.
I have cut the bottom (2) courses before learning It's proper to make a bevel on every brick bottom, as I was thinking I would use shims to match the angle with grout. Rethinking now next steps.
here's a pic of my IT that now learning may not be OK to use as the brick C/L is not in the direct plane of the pivot, as it's off by 1/2 brick too low. Considering options as I;'m not with a welder to make a rod/tool to move the brick higher.

[golfguiedo]

Here's how my floorplan has been adjusted by the new smaller opening width. It certainly complicates the side brick cuts.

[UtahBeehiver]

First, you should not have to bevel the bottoms of the brick, the IT sets the angle so the brick face is perpendicular to the pivot point. On the IT, you need to correct where the centerline along the IT rod from the pivot point to the center of the brick. This ensures that the face of the brick is at 90 degrees to the center of the oven. The error by not doing this is cumulative through each course and by time you reach the upper courses the dome is out of wack. There are several "non weld" ITs out on the forum done with the correct orientation, just look around.

You need to step back and get the arch bricks set up, marked, and cut before you go higher. A tapered inner arch, you start with the Top Dead Center Brick and work down each side of TDC, each brick is unique and cuts are skewed, and set by an IT. The pivot point of the IT should be at floor elevation for you will have to make dome radius adjustments for the dome to meet the arch correctly. Those two first course arch bricks need the 90s cut off along the ID radius of the dome.


PS I have moved your thread to Oven Construction.

[golfguiedo]

Here's a new IT that has the center of the brick at the center of the IT. Was pretty simple to make once I got desperate. About $5 from HomeDepot and spare parts I had lying around.
After I was done setting the 1st course, I used the IT tool to confirm it was round. Fridge went out tonight, so maybe no work tomorrow :<( while I troubleshoot that. Next step will be to lay the 2nd course, I have already cut to see how the tool works, and following that to follow Russel's proposal to cut all the bricks for ARCH, taper them, and use the IT tool to get a measurement for them all. Setting them as soon as possible.

[JRPizza]

Have you put a brick on top of your arch form at TDC and seen how the dome will mate with it?

[UtahBeehiver]

Much better on the IT, this should work. As Jr mentioned, you need to check TDC. I think your arch form is too far in, based the bottom arch form not lining up with inside diameter of the dome. This would be that 90 degree angle that is on the upper right corner of pic 3 that when you match the arch form it is not lining up with the inside ID of the dome. This affects how the tapered arch aligns.



(My IT was raised, should of been at floor level) but notice how the bottom of the arch form aligns with the ID of the dome. This is where the arch form needs to be placed. The bottom arch brick should follow the ID rather than have a 90 degree angle, then line up the form.

[golfguiedo]

Yes, I have been monitoring where the top brick would come to TDC knowing I was trading off the fact I cant move the air camber any further frontward due to my other limitations. Result is that my bottom point is 1/4" inset as shown leaving about 4" depth on the bottom. No ideal, but seemed to me the right tradeoff and believe the arch should still be structurally sound. Cutting the trapezoids will be on course for next step.

What mortor spacing is typical in the arch? Assuming 1/8"-3/16" between the arch bricks is typical.

[golfguiedo]

Also, re-engineering the smaller opening causes me to have even number of bricks. As they will be interlocking, is there any concern to have 16 bricks as shown? I suspect not, but just checking for your experience.

JR - Question for you. I noticed in one photo you may not have tapered your bricks (left/right side and set the square bricks with triangles to be filled in mortar. Is this correct and any regrets to not cutting every brick. t he time savings seems substantial. Any tradeoff in performance of the oven? Looks seems exactly the same form the inside. Any comment?

[JRPizza]

Yes, I did my best to eliminate the internal vee and minimize exposure of mortar to direct fire. I did this by beveling the sides so that the internal surfaces fit pretty tight and left large gaps on the rear that I filled with mortar. I think the second pic shows this pretty well. I didn't just bevel the inner edge but went all the way back as that worked best with my angle jig setup. I did not taper bricks to eliminate gaps in the rear and would not do so if I built again.

[JRPizza]

Attached is a spread sheet you might find helpful. I had to zip it for the forum to accept the attachment - excel files won't upload. I think my joints were around 3/8 or a little thicker. I found it hard to work with really thin joints for arch bricks. Let me know if the file works for you or if you have any questions. I tried to supply some instructions on the sheet.

[golfguiedo]

Yes the file opened and worked to confirm what I had planned (16 ricks as planning 1/4" gaps.). Going for 15 makes more of a cut (1.6 vs 1.75") bevel and space to .4", I can get 15 instead. Sounds like a plan.

It seems that I should build the arch before laying hte 3rd course of bricks. Is this what you find most builders do?

[golfguiedo]

Fellas. Not as much progress as I would like but done for the day.

course Two done and working on the arch.
with the challenge I made for myself moving the arch inward, the challenge is now to get the top of the arch solid in size to be substantial enough and build into the dome correctly. A slow process for problem solving the right cuts and heights for the course 4 & 5 ( where the bricks will start coming together at 1” above the arch.

I don’t quite understand the inverted V comments made, so in course 2 I didn’t make any special cuts other than a standard taper on both sides. I did notice the V that was left on each side but I just grouted it shut. Will that cause me troubles in higher courses?

JR - should work out to 17 per the spreadsheet, just need to confirm but ran out of daylight today to make the cuts..

[UtahBeehiver]

The Inverted Vs get larger and more pronounce as you move up and the diameter of the oven decreases. Here is what you will see if not adjusted.