Pizza History in the Hammer Continues

[danhem]

Ah well - seemed to work well enough to get around the arch and it is done as well as it will be - it was actually a FANTASTIC experience - it really feels like something special is happening!!
Barry

seemed to work well enough indeed. Great job on a really difficult concept to grasp. Defo the hardest part of the build I’d say, things should be plain sailing now until you get to the second most difficult concept....the flue gallery (as always some great examples on the forum).

neat job Baza, looking like a really clean build.

[Ope-dog]

Hey Baza, I appreciate your words on my mock-up. It's actually little styrofoam blocks I found at the craft store. (Was thinking of just fiddling with sugar cubes..but this proved much easier and effective.) My mock-up was fun to play with while watching football over the weekend, and it actually failed in a few spots.. or.. succeeded.. in showing me where I went wrong, if that's how you choose to look at it. (I'd rather find out my mistakes now, for sure!) My model actually ended up with a tear drop dome as I built. Afterwards, I saw some great threads on this site about the teardrop effect and what causes it. I suspect this won't be an issue on your build as your arch seems to be in the right spot. (My mock-up arch was located a bit too far forward, I'm guessing..)

Instructive videos would be great. It's funny how everyone says the same thing.. the tapered inner-arch is daunting until you do it. And like you, I have also studied Mongota's colored dot pic multiple times. lol. I look forward to watching your build progress.. thanks again for sharing your learnings!

[CapePizza]

Hello Barry. I wanted to tell you your arch looks great and that you must be so pleased to have that part of the project completed! I also wanted to echo your thought about there being an instructive video of sorts or a well illustrated tutorial on arch building and dome transitioning. From what I gather from other's experiences (including my own) this seems to be the most hair raising event when building a WFO.
Looking forward to seeing your progress!! Thanks for sharing your pics, and your experience.

[Baza]

Ope-dog - Ok - your model is AWESOME!! Is that wafer and chocolate?? Looks like the only oven on this forum EVER to be edible instead of providing edibles!! Very cool way to visualize your thinking. First, thank you for the kindness and support - truly means a great deal. Your question - would I do it again to build in a one-r ... I don't know yet. Honestly, I don't know if my efforts to tie in the courses already set and soon to be set into the existing arch will be tough or not - I think one can wiggle their arch brick to fit the course brick as much as one can wiggle the course brick to fit the existing arch. My logic was that the course brick cut to fit the existing arch will never be seen and can be cut from a 1/2 brick square - the arch bricks are very particular and I prefer creating a Frankenstein brick that won't be seen than an equally monstrous one that could be (or at least be part of an important structure in the build!).

mongota again - so grateful for the kind words of encouragement from such a master builder - you arch instructions with the coloured dots was open on my laptop as I went through the day! SO helpful (as you always are!). Kinda of a cool thought to think of all the cuts leading to that one plug brick - a good destination! Your philosophy of building and rolling with things and the "what the hell just happened there!?" is very welcome!!

Again - I think, if someone was to build again (do I hear groaning or chin rubbing thoughts?) a video of using the IT (or string) to do the Arch of one of these things then the tie in to the dome would be a true epiphany for builders trying to visualize the process! My son just finished film school - we just need a willing builder!

Take care friends - course tying to arch this weekend!
I'm excited!
Barry

[mongota]

You did well!

Jigs? I found they helped for 95% of the cuts made in the project, but there are times you just have to use your Mach 3 Eyeball to mark a brick for a cut. I used my IT held next to the arch brick, then my eyeball, to locate the cut marks for my arch bricks. There are many different paths you can take to accomplish each task of the build, but just remember, all paths eventually lead to the plug brick being installed in the dome.

We try to build these to the nth degree of precision...because we all want beautiful builds. But in the end, the dome will cook. And in the end, the build WILL be beautiful.

That's what the mortar joints are for. Off by a degree here on a taper cut? Mortar will fill the gap.

I tried to do a "nice" build. And in the end I think I did. But I still had a few cosmetic yahoo moments pop up. I absorbed them and didn't let them discourage me from moving on. A structural yahoo? I'll fix that. But cosmetic?

Congrats on your progress.

[Ope-dog]

Hey Baza... I echo Neil B's post.. it's looking great! I really appreciate you sharing your tapered arch trials with the group. I have been researching almost daily everyone's stories with the tapered arch. It's funny.. many people say one day it seems simple, then the next day it seems complicated. And I totally agree. But as I'm stuck on the road for another few weeks, I won't be able to get going on my build and see for myself. As I can't stop thinking about the issue, I went to the craft store and built a mock-oven in my hotel room. Obviously, cutting foam blocks is much easier than cutting fire brick (hehehe) but I was really curious to try and angles of the arch tie-in. (I built the arch on my mock-up with each course of dome "brick", placing in the TDC with the corresponding course. Seems most build the arch first and then marry the courses up to the corresponding brick..)

But what you described on your cuts makes perfect sense. My question in... now that your arch is complete, would you do it again the same way and tweak your cuts based off your learnings? I can't help but think that building the arch ahead of time takes away some of your "wiggle room" with your dome courses, as like you said, you're forced to make intricate cuts ahead of time.

I guess if all your math is correct, the cuts ahead of time are no issue. I don't know if I trust my math well enough for that. :-)

[Neil.B]

Well done Baz, looks great.

[Baza]

Hello Forno Friends!

Been a busy weekend and, despite the Raptor loss - it was a good run and a tight match!
mongota - hope you're happy with the result - Celtics are a tough team. Next round will be key!
CapePizza - thank you so much for the encouragement - the Arch is done!! (such as it is - but with a bit of doctoring it will look/function better - but don't we all!?)

The goal was to finish the arch and, if possible, tie in the 4 courses built so far on either side - so, the arch is built (sigh)
I fell into some challenges with angles and the like with the tapered inner arch - I don't have a jig (3 incarnations so far and with no ability to weld and not knowing where to get thick plastic/poly) - I need to prop up my brick with wedges and the like and it isn't as accurate as I'd like - so this ate up time!

Notwithstanding - the side of the arch brick cuts were done to follow both dome inner circumference both laterally and vertically - it was kinda cool to do!
For the most part, I'm happy with the arch and will likely go at it with my grinder to take out some of the mismatched cuts - it will be good
Despite some of the narly cuts, I think it will work out - MANY MANY thanks to all the wonderful builders here who helped with great support to at get it to this point

I found it really hard to use my IT for marking the outer bricks. Dry laying them and moving my IT to mark off was a totally confusing piece given I didn't know where to mark it - the IT is straight and the arch is curved - so where to mark on the outside side of the furthest brick AND how do you mark on top when the bottom of your IT is hitting the uncut brick and your pencil is extended almost 6" down from the outside diameter point on my IT to the brick!?!? Sigh - I tied a mason string, knotted it at the Inside and outside diameter and did my best (but even here the string bent around the outside of the furthest brick)

Ah well - seemed to work well enough to get around the arch and it is done as well as it will be - it was actually a FANTASTIC experience - it really feels like something special is happening!!
Barry

[CapePizza]

Hello Barry. Thought I'd ask how your arch build went? I had remembered you saying you might tackle that this weekend. Went through your build posts. I admired your clean work space and clean build.

[mongota]

Take care everyone - I know some of you will be making PIZZA~~
Go RAPTORS!
Barry

Ummm...go Celtics! I grew up in Massachusetts, lol
What a game.

[Baza]

P3 Stoaker great to hear from you and THANK YOU for both the encouragement and offer to consider your build around the arch again - you've helped refocus my efforts again.
mongota you continue to offer support and encouragement - sometimes they are the very things that push you more than explanations about things you just might not understand!
Arch efforts begin tomorrow and I'm hoping they are successful!
I'll be sure to post whatever madness results from those exertions!

Take care everyone - I know some of you will be making PIZZA~~
Go RAPTORS!
Barry

[P3 Stoaker]

G'day Barry,
Nice going, progressing well. I haven't logged in for quite a while. I've just read your build since around post 40, and quite enjoyed the entertainment value, and certainly had a few laughs (with you of course, feeling your pain).
I guess we all have build issues to work through, at least while gaining experience, I've only just started my build and I have. I read a comment from Russell some time ago, "these ovens are not a precise structure", or words to that effect and as I struggle with results not really up to the image I had of accuracy and looks I keep this comment in mind.
It doesn't happen often but as I read your post where you were having issues with the offset, or gap to the IT when positioning the first course on the soldier, I think I could see what was going on. I know it's old news now, but I had a similar issue and believe it would be a similar cause in that because the soldier inner face travels around 2 bricks high, that face is not following the arc and the higher it is, the further outside the arc it becomes. When the next course is positioned the lower edge is a lot closer to the true arc radius and therefore presents a gap, or mismatch where the bricks meet. I had a similar issue with the inner arch bricks being offset where they meet. I won't bore you with the details, however should you wish to read they are on my build.
My build was all covered up around 3-4 weeks ago and won't see daylight for a few more months. Work circumstances are preventing any chance of any work. I will however post the latest photo's taken a few weeks ago and update the build shortly.
Good luck moving forward
Regards
Greg

[mongota]

Nice work Barry. You're always going to hit a roadblock somewhere, you've done a terrific job of keeping the project moving forward. Meaning upward!

[Baza]

HEAT BREAK!

So - decided upon putting a heat break in the floor. After reading many pros/cons/nah-don't-even-bother I decided to give it a go - what could be the worst? A few degrees slower bleed of heat from the oven floor. And gave a chance to try something new! Pics included!

• Only local stuff I could find was gasket tape for a kamado oven rated 700 degrees.
• I pulled the bricks from the herringbone of the floor and to follow the route of the tape
• I applied two strips, totalling 1 3/4" high - down 3/4" from the surface of the brick - this meant cutting a lip out of the brick for the tape to ribbon through the hearth floor without creating a gap at the surface
• Measured the height of the cut to make around the appropriate sides of the removed bricks
• Set saw to cut down 1 3/4" and made 2 passes with the width of the saw kerf = the width of the gasket
• Snaked the material through for a dry fit - perfect!
• Laid notched bricks with insulating tape running through it from one end to the other - looks like nothing happened to the surface!

I don't know if it will work terribly well (when I finally fire and get a thermometer test - I'll let you know!)
In any event - it was fun to get it to work and fingers crossed that it helps keep heat in the floor a bit longer
Going to put ceramic rope around the inner arch and lip over it with the structure to the outer arch as a second form of breaking heat from inner oven to outer arch --- for what it's worth!

All the best,
Barry

[Baza]

Thanks Ricky and Neil! Looking forward to it coming together as well - today felt like such a day -- Ricky, looking back to that small brick with the massive mortar joints -- I remember trying to work the angles I was fretting about above and afraid to break the running bond - so newbie'd a quick fix and got a bit sloppy - though the fire will likely be pushed up against it - any time I do see it - it will remind me to have PATIENCE

Today was a good day - the bricks cut from last night were mortared down as the 5th course - I used a number of bricks I screwed up on from the previous course, so shaved them down using the method above - worked really well and got, mostly, tight joints with the mortar! Very, VERY happy with this - having learned from this forum from MANY wonderful people who shared their approaches that informed my solution here! I built the arch template, stacked and sketched out the arch walls and put in a heat break!

Like I said - a good day (certainly in light of yesterday's feeling of disaster)
Barry