Pizza History in the Hammer Continues

[Baza]

Hello Forno Friends!

The cutting is going well - so far - layouts are looking good!

QUESTION: I'm having a devil of a time sourcing fireclay powder. I want to take out some very small rises in the brick (inconsistencies as the floor is sitting very level - woohoo!). Can I just use fine sand to level the floor brick - do I HAVE to use Fireclay sand in the 50/50 mix I see on this forum? (I know I have sand from cutting but it is in the wetsaw basin as mud! No time to wait for it to all dry out!).

So, is fine sand alone ok as a levelling agent or do I HAVE to put the fireclay sand in too?

Thanks for any help!
Barry

[UtahBeehiver]

Have you tried pottery supply stores, a quick google on my end show quite a number in the Ontario area. You want powdered clay. Yes you can use sand only for leveling, fire clay helps with the consistency. Cuttings from wet saw has been used in homebrew but we get varied feedback on it, one being a little more difficult to use the homebrew,

[Baza]

UtahBeehiver thank you! Yes - saw the same and inquired - they are selling 50lb bags for $125 each. I need just a bit for levelling. (Sigh).
I’ll look again to see if anyone will sell a small batch - but coming up thin there.
thanks for the caution on cuttings - perhaps if I screen sift it - it may work ...

... and off to cut out the floor! (Gulp!)
barry

[Baza]

Hey there Forno Friends (and welcome to our new moderators! ... I'm going to need your help here!)

MY IT TOOL
After much hand-wringing and an abundance of support from this forum - I made my IT tool ... riffing off masters here - no welds (couldn't) and came up with what is in pics on this post.

• TOOL:
  • piece of lumber for stem with hold drilled one end to match pin in u-bolt (u-bolt is actually piece from a marine turnbuckle - do you think I could find a simple u-bolt with stem here in Canada - ugh!) ... sawed it down to height.
  • drew a midpoint the length of the lumber stem then measured from middle of pin exactly 21" along that midpoint.
  • Cut piece and measured up 1 and 1/4" from midpoint of stem to put a second piece of wood so that the mid-point of the stem met the mid-point of the brick - made an L-shape
  • extra wood on top - call it the lip - is long enough to put a hole for a pencil to help mark the outside of the dome when I have to mark the arch bricks to do the angle cuts there.
  • added two pieces of 1/2" ply to the sides to provide more of a stable face to lean the brick against.
• MOUNT/PLACEMENT:
  • 1/2" ply drilled exact size as a piece of stiff PVC, hammered in to ply - sturdy sleeve to put the u-bolt stem in (slight movement - but not much)
  • PVC opening placed directly above dead centre and stabilized in place with ply all around - cut brick-sized.
  • Have to place pivot point at floor level - so had to go lower than brick with the mount. Height of u-bolt cut to make sure the pin/pivot point is at floor level.
  • took out bricks around the mount so stem could lower enough to do the first few courses - cut brick-sized 1/2" ply to stabilize the mount all around (will put back when higher courses are complete).

I added this description above (and accompanying pictures) for any new builder who gets as angst-ridden as me about making one without welding and such.
I hope it helps!
(time will tell if it works! HA!)

Best
Barry

[Baza]

Ok - then, after IT tool made - re-checked template I cut out in light board and all matched up - 21" from centre all around!
WOO!

Then - used the board (and IT tool to double-check) and drew circle around laid brick to mark cuts.
Swallowed my slight apprehension around the wet saw - and started cutting - went really well!!

Laid the cut bricks in place - re-checked for accuracy (wood template and tool) - pretty darn good!
Was very happy with the day!

NOTICED - my floor is REALLY level and everything is sitting lovely! HOWEVER, there are slight variances in the brick that have lifts of about 1/32" - when I swipe my metal ruler (like a peel) around - it ticks along these little variances. They are so slight that I'm not pulling up the floor to lay it in sand/fireclay but will elect to sand these slight rises down instead - I don't want to mess with how level it is.

[Baza]

HOUSTON - WE HAVE A PROBLEM!!!

SO - after all the enjoyment of cutting a floor that lines up, laying it level with no sand/fireclay and constructing an IT tool that worked to confirm my original measurements ... everything went to crap after that.

In the pics you will see that I am doing a soldier course. I measured up 5" and made an angle cut there based on the angle of the IT tool laid against it at that point (it was here I noticed something out of sorts).
The height of this soldier is, essentially, 2 courses-ish.

PROBLEM presented itself when I brought the IT tool up to the soldier - I noticed that, though the face of the tool is exact with the outside diameter of the inner circle (inside oven, 21") when I pulled it up, there was a 3/8" gap between the face of the tool and the soldier!!!!!

I cut it anyway (see Pictures) and thought I'd test it by laying an off cut (#1) in the tool against the soldier's angle (#2) and see if there was much of a difference - YEP!!!! 3/8" gap between the face of the tool and the flush face of the soldier and first 1/2 brick!!!?? (yellow exclamation point).
I honestly don't know what the hell happened!!??

The floor was cut 21" from centre all around
The soldiers are laid up against this floor with a 1/8" cardboard expansion joint (negligible difference - I took it out to see if that was the problem - nope).

QUESTION - do I now have an oven that is 21 3/8' radius that I have to adjust inwards on each course going up to make it 20" at the top?
Or is there something I can do now to fix this - or at least have it explained to help me understand why/what happened!?

All building has stopped until I figure this out!

Gutted in Hamilton
Barry

[Baza]

Trying to work through it - wondering if I don't just "soldier" on ...

Picture 1: Soldier

• shows what I have - the soldier (5" inward face and angled cut on top).
• I stacked 4 courses of brick with wedges to 'see what happens' - does 3/8" gap with IT tool disappear?
• Found that at the 4th course - the gap disappears (see pic). Brick is flush with face of IT AND at the angle of the IT
• It "corrected itself"

Picture 2: NO Soldier - 1/2 brick

• first 1/2 brick (at floor level) meets IT
• second course 1/2 brick (first above floor level - with wedge) flush with first brick face, meets IT
• Third course 1/2 brick flush with second brick face, meets IT

So - with the same IT - two results that suggest the IT is fine - but the difference in how one lays out their courses initially poses initial alignment problems (off-sets).
I see why some go with the 1/2 brick to start instead of the taller soldier if it creates this kind of discrepancy. (or it might just be me)

I think I may "soldier" on - cut a new one with a steeper angle to avoid the need to raise the back on the first course above the soldier and then carry on as it appears the angle "corrects itself".

or is there a different school of thought? Suggestions?

... I'm going for a run now - I need to clear my head ...

Thanks everyone!
Barry

[Chach]

I think your IT is taller than the brick your setting and is touching the brick below it. That should not happen. The brick should be at the angle of the IT not the IT and the brick below. The IT will dictate the angle and your going to position the brick wherever the IT sets it as this is it's true place but the IT should not be touching the brick below the one your setting it is at a different angle from the one your setting above. The dome looks like its a straight angle instead of curving.

Ricky

[Chach]

Hey there Forno Friends (and welcome to our new moderators! ... I'm going to need your help here!)

MY IT TOOL
After much hand-wringing and an abundance of support from this forum - I made my IT tool ... riffing off masters here - no welds (couldn't) and came up with what is in pics on this post.

• TOOL:
  • piece of lumber for stem with hold drilled one end to match pin in u-bolt (u-bolt is actually piece from a marine turnbuckle - do you think I could find a simple u-bolt with stem here in Canada - ugh!) ... sawed it down to height.
  • drew a midpoint the length of the lumber stem then measured from middle of pin exactly 21" along that midpoint.
  • Cut piece and measured up 1 and 1/4" from midpoint of stem to put a second piece of wood so that the mid-point of the stem met the mid-point of the brick - made an L-shape
  • extra wood on top - call it the lip - is long enough to put a hole for a pencil to help mark the outside of the dome when I have to mark the arch bricks to do the angle cuts there.
  • added two pieces of 1/2" ply to the sides to provide more of a stable face to lean the brick against.
• MOUNT/PLACEMENT:
  • 1/2" ply drilled exact size as a piece of stiff PVC, hammered in to ply - sturdy sleeve to put the u-bolt stem in (slight movement - but not much)
  • PVC opening placed directly above dead centre and stabilized in place with ply all around - cut brick-sized.
  • Have to place pivot point at floor level - so had to go lower than brick with the mount. Height of u-bolt cut to make sure the pin/pivot point is at floor level.
  • took out bricks around the mount so stem could lower enough to do the first few courses - cut brick-sized 1/2" ply to stabilize the mount all around (will put back when higher courses are complete).

I added this description above (and accompanying pictures) for any new builder who gets as angst-ridden as me about making one without welding and such.
I hope it helps!
(time will tell if it works! HA!)

Best
Barry

Nice job...I'm a big fan of the fork bolt rather than the offset caster wheel.

Ricky

[Baza]

Chach Thanks for the feedback! And not a fan of the caster wheel either - too much adjustment to use it. But it works for folks and that's what's important.

I went back to take a look at things and will re-consider with your insight - I don't think it was touching - but I'll have a look for sure!

I went back to my form for the oven floor - and used it as the hemisphere for laying the dome brick out (as per the original FB plans and others who did same).
I noticed (as in the pictures below) that when I did this - as per my post #52 above - that eventually, the courses "catch up" around the 6th round.

I first laid out 1/2 brick courses from floor to dome top (perfect hemisphere to keep it simple), then noted that it was a lovely smooth inner surface with about 3/8" gaps at the back.
Then I put the angled soldier brick on top and, lo! There was the 3/8" gap difference between the hemispherical course underneath it!! I continued the angled-soldier courses and there it was, by course 6 they were the same and the gap closed (all this WITHOUT the IT!).

SO - I'm still going to try what Ricky was suggesting - certainly worth a look. If I can't figure it out - I'm going to TLR it (That Looks Right) as a previous builder did who's oven turned out fine!
Since it creates a wider bottom (isn't that close to a Queen song!?) it buy more inside real estate for pots and the like given the height this achieves and eventually curves over to meet the rest of the courses higher up. I'm starting to think it's not that much of a problem ...

... or is it?

Have a look at the pics - you'll see what I mean (not that anyone here needs any convincing from the like of me!)

Thanks again Forno Friends!
Barry

[Chach]

This is what I'm talking about. The brick below is in a straight line with the brick above they should be angling.

Ricky

[Dino_Pizza]

Hi Barry,
Great job so far!, I'll second what Ricky said above about shortening your measuring arm so it won't press against the brick row below. You seem to be spending the correct amount of time planning and double checking things before you start mortaring in place and that is great.

I did not do a hemisphere, I did a squished parabola which meant adjusting the IT tool distance for most rows. Even with a hemisphere, be prepared for minor adjustments because it is so, so easy to let the dome height "get away from you" as you mortar things in. Dry stacking as you are doing doesn't include the mortar that gets into the inner dome bricks. I tried to have next to nothing on the inside (hoping to mortar in only the V-shape or Pie-shape areas from the outside) but... some always gets in. And you DO want some morter on all 4 sides of the brick, its what gives your dome strength, its just hard to keep the inside thin.

I was shooting for a 19.75" inner dome height on my 42" wide oven, and it finished at 20.5 but I was ruthless on my 4th and 5th rows to start bringing it over. You will be amazed at how much craft and technical skill you will develop after 2 rows and it will get easier.

cheers, Dino

[Baza]

HELLO Forno Friends!!

Been a while since I've worked/updated!! I'm a high school principal and back-to-school has been HECTIC preparing all the protocols for school return and safety! WOW!
Miss working on the oven - but did get at it and started laying it down!
I know these are the easiest 2 courses as they are just 1/2 bricks - but it really is a nice intro to using one's saw, IT, mortar mixing for consistency and watching it start to rise!

So far so good - I know it's going to get weirder!

Hope everyone is well!
Barry

[Baza]

Hello Forno Friends and welcoming input!!

Dino_Pizza First - thanks to you for your support and help by sharing your drawings!!! Incredibly kind, supportive and clear!

Well things went well on second course - happy with outcome and content with the joints - trying to keep them tight.
Then off to the 3rd course - noticed inverted V's in the dry stack.UtahBeehiver and many others indicated this would start happening around here and there would need to be a plan!
Many also mentioned the they would, if doing it again, not do complicated compound cuts and just bevel the first few inches in on each side ... so I took the advice.

GreenViews Thanks to you for your straight-edge method of calculating the bevel cut! I think it worked well (though I could not understand how you got the vertical? I get how you got the bevel, but how did you get the vertical to get the angle cut that made the trapezoid!?). I didn't do a trapezoid ... thinking the bevel was enough. I started by laying 4 bricks and it seemed to go ok - then noticed even these start to show an inverted V!!!?? (see last picture)

I don't know what is up.
I haven't cut an angle - just the bevel.
I'm trying to minimize cuts (ie/ not an angle - but I think I need to given the impending V's I'm starting to see!).

I just don't know how to confidently figure out how to do the angle to go with the bevel! ANY help here would be welcome!
(NOTE: I know of the famous "Dome Spreadsheet" but I do not have a jig - should I? - and it seems profoundly beyond me!)
If trapezoids are in my future - I could use a bit of help to learn how!

Thanks friends
Barry

[Chach]

Looking great! You are going to love seeing your stack of bricks transform to the dome.

Ricky