BA's Dome! Let the games Begin!

[Bandrasco]

Re: BA's Dome! Let the games Begin!

Make note: If Bill invites you over for dinner, bring your own fork

Ha! Good one.

Well today went a little better. I mixed up the new stuff and started working. I was able to finish the soldier course and the first two rows of bricks for the arch landing. The new material worked nice, was very creamy as described in most threads and appears to be setting up. I don't think it can get too hard when it's so damp. I'm very pleased with the test cement-pop; it's as hard as a rock.

I also want to clarify something I posted earlier. I said that the brown bags of Heatstop-50 were old and bad and the new good bags were white. I was just referring to MY bags and did not intend to mislead anyone in thinking that if they get brown bags that it will be bad. The mfg just said the latest run was in white bags but they still use brown bags. He also said the white mix is a little different... Couldn't really explain how but I guess it doesn't matter as long as it works.

My day ended with a unannounced huge rain storm. I made the mad dash for the tarp, got everything covered, and is good till morning. I did have to cook chicken on the grill in the rain though...

I'll post some pics tomorrow when I get back out.

Thanks for the encouragement; I'm going to need it!

[sarah h]

Re: BA's Dome! Let the games Begin!

I've just been reading of your woes and am glad to hear all is well now.
Best of luck with your building today - be sure to post your results!

Sarah

[mfiore]

Re: BA's Dome! Let the games Begin!

[QUOTE=Bandrasco;43927
I don't know if you can see the fork mark in this one but I hit the thing like I was trying to kill it. I think I bent the fork.

[/QUOTE]

Make note: If Bill invites you over for dinner, bring your own fork

[Bandrasco]

Re: BA's Dome! Let the games Begin!

Here are some pictures.
Left cement-pop is the new (white) bag, Right cement-pop is the bad stuff. You can even see the difference just by looking at it.

Close up of the bad mortar. 15 hrs after mixing it's still sandy and so soft I did this with a pen tip.

Close up of the new bag. Notice it says 'new'. I did that with a 6 penny nail, thats all it did to it. Rock solid.

I took a kitchen fork (wife is going to love that) and simply pushed down, it immediately fell apart and when I pushed my thumb on it it crumbled into sand.

I don't know if you can see the fork mark in this one but I hit the thing like I was trying to kill it. I think I bent the fork.

Maybe this would be a good suggestion and step for all novice builders. Test a small batch of the mix the day prior to using. It could save you your sanity, or more importantly your oven!

[Bandrasco]

Re: BA's Dome! Let the games Begin!

Confirmation on test.

Yesterday I took a small batch of the bad Heatstop-50 and then a small batch of the new, mixed them up in separate small paper cups, and today the result...

The old stuff is still wet, sandy, crumbly, and I could easily rub it apart. The new is lighter gray, hard as a rock, and when I tried to rub it nothing happened. I hit it with a fork handle and it 'pinged'. The old crap just made a thud and actually dented in almost an 1/8th of an inch.

Here's a tip when buying Heatstop-50 or any refractory mortar. If the guy takes more than 30 minutes looking for the material, don't buy it! I wish the bags had run dates on them; it would make it a little more comforting when paying $70.00 a bag!

I will say this about the owner Bob. He is a very nice, concerned, knowledgeable man. He did what he said he would do and went above and beyond to make sure I got what I needed and even offered to cover my costs if need be. That was not requested or necessary but he offered. The defective material was not a mfg issue, it was a storage issue. I'm happy that I was able to find more material; I'm even more happy that it set up over night. I would recommend his products as he stands behind them.

It's 7:AM and I'm heading for a HUGE build day!

[Bandrasco]

Re: BA's Dome! Let the games Begin!

Thanks Travis,

I've seen my share of bad mortar in my years; this was not a good moment for me.

I'm very grateful I knew that this was a potential issue before I went too far. I cant imagine what I would have done if I got finished and the thing fell apart. I probably would have had a 'Clark Griswold' Christmas Vacation melt down when he got the 'Jelly of the month club' instead of a bonus. Yes, I was almost a two year old...

Thanks for the encouragement!

[staestc]

Re: BA's Dome! Let the games Begin!

Sorry about your mortar issues, I know it must just be horrible. But there are lots of plusses.

The crappy mortar was pretty easy to get off from the sounds of it.
You figured out the mortar was crappy before you got real far into using it.
You shared your experience with everybody, so that novice builders (read folks like me) will learn from your experience and maybe avoid the same problem!!

Anyway, sorry about the setback for thanks so much for letting everybody know what to watch out for!

Travis

[Bandrasco]

Re: BA's Dome! Let the games Begin!

Thanks Mike, Elizabeth,

I went outside, scraped off the mortar with ease and in no time had them looking new.

This is what Heatstop-50 should NOT look like 24 hrs after it was mixed. I simply added water and mixed it...AGAIN





I don't think I should be able to do this. I know I'm strong but this is silly.

This is not a good time to be around me...Not feeling too photogenic.

Looks like new bricks; I think I'll mortar them up tomorrow.

BA...OUT

[egalecki]

Re: BA's Dome! Let the games Begin!

Better the issue you know about and can fix than the one you didn't know and get totally screwed by.... you were lucky you knew what it should be like from your previous experience! A lot of people would have shrugged, said "that's weird", and gone on, and not realized they had a real problem until they were fighting gravity.

My heatstop came in white bags, but I believe some people's were a different color. I think it didn't make a difference, just a variation with manufacture, apparently.

Enjoy your beer, start again tomorrow! You'll be incinerating bread like me in no time....

[mfiore]

Re: BA's Dome! Let the games Begin!

Sorry to hear about your setback. I'll support you remotely by also cracking open a beer

[Bandrasco]

Re: BA's Dome! Let the games Begin!

Thanks for the advice and encouragement everyone but I'm afraid it's bad news. I spoke to the owner /mfg of the heatstop, Bob Rutkers I believe his last name was. Very nice guy but after a long, long detailed conversation he feels that it's bad mortar. I just went outside and could with my fingernail scrape out mortar. The dried gray blobs that fell off the back when assembling them yesterday was easily crumbled in my fingers as well. I drove over 100 miles today to get two new bags (white) from another company and hopefully they will work. The company I bought the original material from said they would take it back. Bad news is that I have to disassemble my work from yesterday, scrape off the mortar, and then reassemble with the new stuff. I tried to find some Refrax but no one in Tampa carries it. I am absolutely crushed and the wind has been taken out of my sails.... BUT, there is always tomorrow! No I'm not going to break out in song, more like break out my frozen mugs and hang out in my hot tub by my kegerator!

I'm too mentally exhausted to work on it today. I will try again in the morning. Just to be safe I mixed up a small batch of the new stuff to see what happens over night.

[egalecki]

Re: BA's Dome! Let the games Begin!

Can you pull the bricks you set yesterday apart? Can you make a fingernail mark in the mortar between bricks? While it may still be damp looking, you should NOT be able to do either of those things nearly 24 hours after the fact. I wouldn't think that you should have been able to break that ball up by hand, either. Maybe a smaller one, but not the size of a nickel. Mfiore's heatstop sounds like it's performing like mine, even with the temperature difference (I did my mortar in the summer), so that isn't it. I did have a few lumps, but apparently not like yours.

You did the right thing soaking the bricks, no problem there. I'd park myself at the place you bought the heatstop and complain mightily. Then I'd go look for fireclay, lime and portland, and sand and make my own. (or, even better but more spendy, get Refmix from FB!) Making your own is easy, it works well, and isn't 70 dollars a bag. If you're doing a lot of cutting, dry out the dregs from the saw and use it for your fireclay. That's what I did at the end. If you've cut a lot, you should have enough to get started, and since you're doing a lot more cutting than I did, you should have plenty. I would mix up a batch of the dry ingredients, like about a gallon's worth, and mix small quantities of mortar from that. Kept me from having to worry about it getting messed up by water or humidity (although I didn't notice a humidity issue, even in July/Aug.).

[mfiore]

Re: BA's Dome! Let the games Begin!

I agree, it doesn't sound quite right. My heatstop was quite nice, no "Pebbles". It was fairly smooth, like peanut butter (OK, maybe a little grittier than that), but went on sticky, and was definitely firm by the next morning, although not quite white yet. It's been cold here, rather than your hot, humid FL. I don't know if that makes a difference. At this point, I don't think you have much choice but to wait and see what happens. My guess is that it will set up fine, but may take longer.

I'd be curious what others have to say.

[egalecki]

Re: BA's Dome! Let the games Begin!

Looks good, Bill. I like the stone on the right too. It goes with your pavers. I always check my level for level on the wall before I start- we had one we didn't know was off, and it made for a very long day straightening walls once. Lesson learned, although it was painful...

[Bandrasco]

Re: BA's Dome! Let the games Begin!

Thanks Mfiore,

I just had one of those 'OH CRAP' moments and cannot get an answer. Yesterday I posted a concern for the Heatstop 50 and the fact that it had small BB's in it. I just went outside to inspect the mortar and I was able to wipe it off the backside of the bricks with a sponge and very little effort. I called CMS, Bob was not in and no one can answer me if this stuff is good or bad. I called Rumsford, they were very nice but again, no confirmation. I am getting "that doesn't sound right". I am very nervous and do not want to continue until I get confirmation. I made a small ball the size of a nickel last night. Just a few minutes ago I took it and was able to crack it into small pcs with my fingers and then rub them into sand... Am I screwed? I've never seen mortar do this, especially $70.00 a bag mortar!

I soaked my bricks until they stopped bubbling, spread the mortar and set them. After reading all the threads on how fast this stuff sets up I am absolutely amazed that this hasn't.

Any insight would be of great help; I'm at a stand still until I can get an answer.

Thanks again,