My 32" oven build has begun

[cobblerdave]

Re: My 32" oven build has begun

OscarA
Whats with the Hebel? Where is that for ?

Regards Cobblerdave

[david s]

Re: My 32" oven build has begun

Oscar,
Are you aware that Hebel is just aerated concrete made from Portland cement? If in a high heat situation it may fail. Insulating firebrick may be a better alternative. I can't really tell where you are planning to use it.
Dave

[OscarA]

Re: My 32" oven build has begun

I was contemplating using the Hebal to form a barrier between the dome and chimney but couldn't figure out how to do it so dropped the idea.

Anyway I have been thinking long and hard all week since finishing the outer arch about the look and use of the oven and it's not good. The entrance is to long/deep and simple things like putting wood in will require me sticking my head into the entrance. My father in law came over last night and the first thing he said was that thing is to deep which echoed my thoughts.
So what to do, do I make do with it the way it is or do I remove the outer arch and middle section then rebuild the outer arch basically reducing the depth by 1/2. As it is now you have the dome thickness 11cm, gap 2cm, middle section 23cm, outer arch 23cm so total depth 59cm. By removing the middle section I can reduce it to 36cm which is much better.

It just goes to show all the reading and research counts for nothing unless you can use some logic and see how it all goes together.

I can/hope reuse most of the arch bricks as they should clean up so it's only going to set me back on time not money.

You can sort of tell by the pic attached that it is quite deep.

[brickie in oz]

Re: My 32" oven build has begun

I think every domed oven Ive seen on here has a long tunnel like entry.
Its because of the flue, thats why I put my flue over the itself to save room.

[GianniFocaccia]

Re: My 32" oven build has begun

Oscar,
Before you go tearing down your nicely-done outer arch consider the following:

Plenty of builders have 14"-17" entryways. Mine was designed and will end up 18".

There are disadvantages and advantages to a deeper entryway. Disadvantages of the distance from the oven operator to the depth of the oven are:
1) fire management
2) ash/cleaning management
3) food management

The way I look at it, a commercial oven operator with a 44-81" oven does fine managing the depth of his oven. This is what long handles on peels/hooks/rakes/brooms are for.

The advantages of a deeper entryway (and why I designed mine this way) are:

1) It's often windy at my house and I want my fire insulated from the wind
2) a deeper entryway allows for a warming chamber to stage food in/out of the oven
3) a deeper entryway allows for a true heatbreak between the oven and the entryway
4) a deeper entryway allows for less smoke out the front of your oven
4) if I want to build an ambiance fire in the entryway I can knock myself out

Don't discount the value of a deeper entryway nor your hard work. Yes, it can be a matter of style or maybe you have chronic tendinitis in your shoulders like me. I personally watched Antonio Laudisio and the Il Fornaio team do wonderful things with their ovens at the First Annual Forno Bravo Expo by intermittently pulling their pans out of the oven and reinserting them after stirring/adding ingredients/rotating them etc. Each time they pulled them out into less than ideal conditions. A protected entryway that is large enough to hold a sheet pan (warming rolls, coasting roasts, simmering stews etc) is worth its weight in gold, IMHO.

Your heat break design needs some work, but it would be unfortunate if you knocked your arches down and then wish you hadn't.

[OscarA]

Re: My 32" oven build has begun

Hi Brickie I did notice a lot of deep ovens but I think mine is about 10-15cm deeper than most. If I left it I'ld probably get used to it on the other hand it could be something that bugs the hell out of me every time I use the oven.
I feel for the sake of an extra week, less if I pull my finger out I can address it now while I can.
The red bricks I have are 23cm deep so I was thinking of cutting them in half for the flue/chimney section. Do you think that'll work. As for mortar I don't want to make a home brew mortar as it shrinks and can crack when drying but I'm not sure if a normal mortar mix will do. Could I do a normal mortar mix with 1/2 part fire clay.
Example 4 parts sand, 1 part lime, 1 part cement, 1/2 part fireclay (instead of 1 part).

[OscarA]

Re: My 32" oven build has begun

Thanks GianniFocaccia for your thoughts, there are definitely some valid points to a deep entrance you point out.
I'll have to weigh up everything properly before tearing down the arch.

[OscarA]

Re: My 32" oven build has begun

There's an old saying better to keep your mouth shut and let everyone think you're an idiot rather than opening it and convincing them
Sometimes that applies to me

I've just been outside playing with the oven and quite honestly it's not half as bad as I convinced myself it was.
I'll leave things the way they are.

Now back to the joy of cleaning mortar from the brickwork and all the cavities these bricks have.

[brickie in oz]

Re: My 32" oven build has begun

Oscar, sometimes it pays to bounce a question to others and sometimes you get the answer you always thought was right.

Also, it never hurts to ask, if you dont ask, you dont learn.

[cobblerdave]

Re: My 32" oven build has begun

Dear OscarA

You may think that entrance area is long but its a lot higher and wider than the opening to the dome. I recon that it will work great and you will have plenty of room to tend the oven.
I must admit I have not made a comment to date because I was curious to see how your entrance worked out as i'm in the process of thinking of modifing mine.
My hearth continues out from the back of the oven right to the front of the slab in one level (150cm). Distance from inside oven door to the front of the slab is 64 cmThe entrance is 1/2 brick back from the edge and any rain ( god we had enough this year) falls on the hearth an is drawn into the oven.

He is a photo with the hearth protected by a tarp and a piece of tin flashing... pretty ugly Ha.
The plan to date is to fill that 1/2 brick gape with a arch ( yep you spured me on to attempt an arch) Its only a rough plan but I recon if yours works like it does I can make make the mods to mine

Regards
Cobbler Dave

[OscarA]

Re: My 32" oven build has begun

Well it's been almost a month since my last update and here it is.
I have removed the old arch as every time I looked at it it just annoyed me so I bit the bullet and down it went.
I'm much happier now with the look and access to the oven.

Oven needs a clean but that can wait, I couldn't resist the great weather to start the insulation.

You can see the propane solderer in the pics, I tried lighting a fire this morning but couldn't get it to light. All I managed to do was create smoke so being Easter Sunday I gave up as I didn't want to smoke out the neighbors for my amusement.

[OscarA]

Re: My 32" oven build has begun

More pics, these are of the top and show where the flue will go. I am going to use a block of hebel to make a barrier between the flue and oven. I am in the process of shaping the block so it fits nice and snug.

[brickie in oz]

Re: My 32" oven build has begun

Good to see you protected your lungs while doing the blanket..

Whats the plan with the gap between the arch and oven dome?

If that "flue" piece is hebel it wont stand up to the intensely hot flue gasses as it contains portland cement.

[OscarA]

Re: My 32" oven build has begun

Hi Brickie

It is hebel but being aerated I was hoping it might do as the heat wont penetrate to much past the surface of the block. I still have fire bricks and silicon board left over so I can cut a peice of brick to sit against the flue and place a bit of silicon board between the brick and the oven. I will do that instead of the hebel to be safe.
I plan on using vermiculte to fill the gap between the oven and arch.

[brickie in oz]

Re: My 32" oven build has begun

The hebel will break down slowly with each firing, it may only be 1/2 to 1mm each time but it will break down.

Johnny the oven man sells insulating fire bricks that would be a better option.
Or
You could cast a piece from fine refractory concrete.