My 40" Inch pizza oven in Florida

[kbartman]

Re: My 40" Inch pizza oven in Florida

Mortaring brick to the arch is only weak if you don't bond the brick correctly.

I'm not exactly sure what you mean by support on the back of the arch. Are you saying that there is 2" of the arch in which to set your flue on the back of the throat? If so, that is plenty enough for what you need.

KB,
if your pool cage framing isn't in the way of your proposed flue location, could you cut the bond beam out where it is in conflict with the flue and let the cantilevered ends set on masonry built up on the dome? if the length of the cantilever isn't too long you may just let it cantilever out there without any support. is this a block bond beam with rebar or a cast in place bond beam?

just another option i thought i'd toss out to consider.
jon

Sorry Guys,
My explanation is clear as mud to me ............... The clay flue has plenty of room to set on the arch. The decorative bricks surrounding the back side flue need support of some kind, not the firebrick that flue will sit on. I'll try to post one of my highly prized techno paper napkin drawings later, to better explain my dilemma.

[Gulf]

Re: My 40" Inch pizza oven in Florida

Sorry Guys,
My explanation is clear as mud to me ............... The clay flue has plenty of room to set on the arch. The decorative bricks surrounding the back side flue need support of some kind, not the firebrick that flue will sit on. I'll try to post one of my highly prized techno paper napkin drawings later, to better explain my dilemma.

I poured a concrete lintel to keep the wait off of the dome. It spans from the back corners of my vermicrete insulated (brick) chimney.

[kbartman]

Re: My 40" Inch pizza oven in Florida

I poured a concrete lintel to keep the wait off of the dome. It spans from the back corners of my vermicrete insulated (brick) chimney.

Thanks stonecutter and Jon, I hope the attached drawing clears up the muddy water I created. I tend to be the author of confusion Wait that Satan's name....... I'm just confused all the time........ I appreciate your all help, please keep it coming.

Gulf,
I've seen your concrete lintel very impressive. That's the support that I'm trying to accomplish. I'm guessing your lintel to be 3"x4". What type reinforcement is inside? I'll have to go back and look at your pictures. Does that support the full weight of the rear of your chimney's outer bricks?

[kbartman]

Re: My 40" Inch pizza oven in Florida

KB,
if your pool cage framing isn't in the way of your proposed flue location, could you cut the bond beam out where it is in conflict with the flue and let the cantilevered ends set on masonry built up on the dome? if the length of the cantilever isn't too long you may just let it cantilever out there without any support. is this a block bond beam with rebar or a cast in place bond beam?

just another option i thought i'd toss out to consider.
jon

Jon,
I'm some what confused as to what your asking. I will be changing the pool cage framing to wrap the chimney horizontally and down each side vertically.

I'm not sure what your asking on your last question. I'm not familiar with some of the terms. Can you clarify the terms? My construction experience is only from being a sparky on the job watching the other tradesmen build the structures.

[stonecutter]

Re: My 40" Inch pizza oven in Florida

I would build a brick arch right over the entryway...one of the strongest masonry features

[kbartman]

Re: My 40" Inch pizza oven in Florida

I would build a brick arch right over the entryway...one of the strongest masonry features

My plan is to have the brick arch on front entry as seen in my old unrevised drawing showing a buttressed arch. It now will be a semi circular arch. I think my terms are correct. Notice how the base steps up about 1/2" each course. I think this would be ok? My base will now be a bit wider so the inward steps will be more. I think the sides and front will work and support the brick flue wrap. I appreciate need your expertise. Thanks for taking a interest in my build.

Are you proposing I build another brick arch in the rear?....... Build another temporary arch support in the rear over the dome.?? Seems to me a poured arch would accomplish the same thing and use about the same amount of wood. Am I missing some thing, Its takes me awhile to catch on please help clarify

Thanks again

[oasiscdm]

Re: My 40" Inch pizza oven in Florida

Hi KB

I'm curious on your thinking from going from a semi circle arch to the straight sided decorative arch you noted in your previous post. Think I must be missing something.

BTW love your arch neatest I have seen.





Arhhhhh a beer think I will go get one nice one KB

[stonecutter]

Re: My 40" Inch pizza oven in Florida

Are you proposing I build another brick arch in the rear?.......

No, I'm saying it's what I would do because it's the strongest method. I think you should do whatever you are most comfortable with. A poured 'crete beam would be fine as would angle iron.

Build another temporary arch support in the rear over the dome.??

Unless you precast your arched concrete beam, you will have a form back there anyway. Again, if it was me, I wouldn't bother with a wood form in that tight area. I would use 2" rigid foam insulation board, and sister 3 pieces that are cut the arch. You can use furring strips to make the more rigid too. Then just cut the form out later...easy.


All that said the other ways work too.

[kbartman]

Re: My 40" Inch pizza oven in Florida

Hi KB

I'm curious on your thinking from going from a semi circle arch to the straight sided decorative arch you noted in your previous post. Think I must be missing something.

BTW love your arch neatest I have seen.



Arhhhhh a beer think I will go get one nice one KB

Colin,
I changed my original plan after researching how to get a smooth transition between the dome and inner arch. I learn by seeing. I did not see many smooth transitions on a buttressed arch. I'm sure there here on the sight. There are thousand of pictures to look thru. I came across Utah's picture album and his pictures and how he used his IT to determine his cuts and transition seem very smooth and I could see how to do it. Thanks Utah for your detailed picture album along with Gulf's and many others. I'm a very slow reader, the albums are much quicker for me to gather my info. I hope to start a album on my build, soon as I have time to figure that out.

Anyway, I'm even slower at typing. So to make along story short I axed the beauty of the buttressed arch and the larger opening for the semi circular arch and have come love her beauty.

Thanks for the compliment on the arch, although I wish I would have taken the time at the base as I begun the semi circle I should have cut the angle rather then just tilting the brick. I did not think it would show.

Cheers with the my homebrewed beer, Cream ale

No, I'm saying it's what I would do because it's the strongest method. I think you should do whatever you are most comfortable with. A poured 'crete beam would be fine as would angle iron.



Unless you precast your arched concrete beam, you will have a form back there anyway. Again, if it was me, I wouldn't bother with a wood form in that tight area. I would use 2" rigid foam insulation board, and sister 3 pieces that are cut the arch. You can use furring strips to make the more rigid too. Then just cut the form out later...easy.


All that said the other ways work too.

Thanks, Stonecutter good idea.

What your is thoughts on rebar in the corners of the brick chimney? My worry is the hurricanes we have and waking up to find my chimney crumbled on the pool deck .

[stonecutter]

Re: My 40" Inch pizza oven in Florida

What your is thoughts on rebar in the corners of the brick chimney? My worry is the hurricanes we have and waking up to find my chimney crumbled on the pool deck .

I commented on this somewhere else too...rebar is worthless unless it is encapsulated in concrete. A corner is the strongest feature in a masonry wall if it is bonded correctly ( notice a recurring theme?)

I guess if you want to over-engineer the chimney you can core fill the corner brick and have rebar inside. The thing is, if a hurricane or some other force compromised the structural integrity of the chimney, you will need to take it down...rebar or not. Without it, a rebuild is easier....and since lives aren't at stake like a chimney in a house, and you're talking 6'-8', why bother with it.

[kanoer54]

Re: My 40" Inch pizza oven in Florida

Stonecutter and Gulf both have good ideas...must come from experience. An easy solution would be to set a steel angle as Stonecutter suggested back a couple posts. Inexpensive and quick.
jon

[kbartman]

Re: My 40" Inch pizza oven in Florida

No, you don't need rebar in a chimney especially on corners....that is the strongest part of masonry structures, and without being encapsulated in concrete, rebar running up the corners will do nothing structurally.

Correct. For example, just look at some of those huge furnace chimneys or ones that stand in place after a home has burned or crumbled around it.... No bracing, used.

My apologizes..........I'm slow to catch on. Please bare with me, my memory is pictorial, text and reading does not seem to stick. I really appreciate your patience.

Hi KB

I'm curious on your thinking from going from a semi circle arch to the straight sided decorative arch you noted in your previous post. Think I must be missing something.

Colin, not only am I slow to catch on I'm pretty sure I'm dyslexic. My original plan was the segmental arch. I thought you were asking me why I changed it to a semi circular arch. After rereading my explanation for the about 10th time and reading the other post I finally caught on. My apologizes again.

Attached picture with arch names and a good technical reading PDF

I commented on this somewhere else too...rebar is worthless unless it is encapsulated in concrete. A corner is the strongest feature in a masonry wall if it is bonded correctly ( notice a recurring theme?)

I guess if you want to over-engineer the chimney you can core fill the corner brick and have rebar inside. The thing is, if a hurricane or some other force compromised the structural integrity of the chimney, you will need to take it down...rebar or not. Without it, a rebuild is easier....and since lives aren't at stake like a chimney in a house, and you're talking 6'-8', why bother with it.

Thanks again Stonecutter for helping me iron this all out in my head.

One more question if you don't mind. As wet as the Florida summers are, do you recommend any type of sealer on the brick chimney to keep the water out? My hearth pour tends to puddle in the middle under the oven. I tried to trowel a hump during the pour and was unsuccessful. So I drilled holes in the middle of the puddles to help drain, it if water entered the enclosure. During the tropical storm Andrea at the first of this summer my insulation soak the water up like a sponge.

I appreciate everyone's comments and suggestions

[david s]

Re: My 40" Inch pizza oven in Florida

A thermal break can also act as an expansion joint if made of a flexible material. This can be useful in reducing cracks to the outside decorative arch by both reducing the temperature differential and physical pressure from expansion of the inner parts of the oven. Think twice about using a heavy, dense, conductive material in this space.
Regarding the radiant heat from the oven mouth, I have a sheet of 500 x500 x 0.55 mm stainless as a landing in front of the decorative arch, completely outside the oven, on my mobile oven and when it's really cranking the radiant heat ( that Dave spoke about) is so strong and the stainless so conductive, that you can't hold your hand on it.

I took some readings which help explain what I was posting about. The temperatures are all in C (so as a rough guide double them for F)
The first pic shows the temp reading from the thermometer probe located about halfway up the dome.330 C
2. The temp of the entry just inside the thermal break/expansion joint 246 C
3. The temp of stainless sheet outside the decorative arch 255 C
4. The temp of decorative arch 101 C
5. floor just inside oven door 532 C

note that the stainless sheet is hotter than the floor in front of it, even though it is further away from the fire. It is also more than double the temp of the decorative arch on which it rests. The stainless has a large surface area to dissipate its heat and is only 0.55 mm thick.
Apart from the stainless issue the readings also show the effectiveness of the thermal break.
Pic 3 does not show it clearly but my thermal break has about 10 mm of vermicrete between the entry and the decorative arch and the top 5mm or so is sealed with Sikafireate.

[Gulf]

Re: My 40" Inch pizza oven in Florida

Gulf,
I've seen your concrete lintel very impressive. That's the support that I'm trying to accomplish. I'm guessing your lintel to be 3"x4". What type reinforcement is inside? I'll have to go back and look at your pictures. Does that support the full weight of the rear of your chimney's outer bricks?

The lintels are 3.5 X 5.5". I used 1/2" rebar for reinforcement. I precast and then later set them in place. They, possibly do carry all the weight, but I did place 5-1 vcrete in the void underneath. This pic was taken just after removing the forms for the vcrete. I later packed vcrete in the rest of the space across the span.

But you might want to note that my chimney's outer brick are not whole brick. The way they are cut and laid just make them appear to be whole brick.


I used the 2" removed form each face brick as an added space for vcrete for added insulation.

My lintels doubled as corbels. If you are using whole brick, you could possibly notch the bricks on each side and hide them from side view.

This is not "the" way to do it. It is just the way I did it. You are getting some great advice. The steel lintels will also work just fine in a non high heat application. You just have to decide what you are comfortable with .

[kbartman]

Re: My 40" Inch pizza oven in Florida

I took some readings which help explain what I was posting about.

Cool thanks for sharing. The battle of thermal breaks challenge has began.

How do your thermal breaks perform?