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  • Re: OctoForno

    Dough makes lousy stucco.
    Old World Stone & Garden

    Current WFO build - Dry Stone Base & Gothic Vault

    When we build, let us think that we build for ever.
    John Ruskin

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    • Re: OctoForno

      Not as lousy as mortar makes for pizza crust.

      Comment


      • Re: OctoForno

        Originally posted by stonecutter View Post
        Dough makes lousy stucco.
        If it stick a well as it sticks to my pizza peel as my walls, I say it would make a excellent stucco.

        Originally posted by Tscarborough View Post
        Whenever you are mixing stucco or mortar, if doing it by hand, a minimum of 5 minutes is really a minimum. It goes through stages, depending upon how you add the water.

        I add about half the water that I think will do to one side and then mix that into a slurry, then begin mixing in more dry material, still keeping the mix soupy. Once there is no more free water, begin adding small increments of water, mixing the whole mass together before adding more. When it is 100% mixed, no dry particles, evenly "wet", let it rest for a few minutes, then mix it for another minute or two and it is ready to go.

        Hey! That is exactly the way to hand mix dough too, who would have thought....
        I don't want to hi jack John's thread, so any response to this we can finish on my build thread. I mixed what I thought was a dry mix similar to what you explained in a electric mixer. I allowed it to continue to mix while tending to the stucco on the enclosure, only to return to a soupy mixture. The next batch started even dryer . Same thing ???? Again I think over mixing is my issue, the rest period I thought was sitting and my staging board. It ain't rocket science I keep telling myself, but the solution is eluding me.

        I'm also looking forward to seeing the granite cladding. It should be awesome as the rest of the build, sound expensive though.
        Respectfully,

        KB

        My build
        Oven Pics (album under construction)

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        • Re: OctoForno

          Originally posted by Tscarborough View Post
          Not as lousy as mortar makes for pizza crust.
          True,true.
          Old World Stone & Garden

          Current WFO build - Dry Stone Base & Gothic Vault

          When we build, let us think that we build for ever.
          John Ruskin

          Comment


          • Re: OctoForno

            Originally posted by kbartman View Post
            ...... sound expensive though.
            Justified buy saving 80% through DIY.
            Old World Stone & Garden

            Current WFO build - Dry Stone Base & Gothic Vault

            When we build, let us think that we build for ever.
            John Ruskin

            Comment


            • Re: OctoForno

              Justified buy saving 80% through DIY.
              So true. I rationalize almost all of my purchases/projects using this very sound logic! And, given the inordinate amount of time I invest to get them done, convince myself I can get a better result than paying someone who does it in a hurry.

              Comment


              • Re: OctoForno

                Plus the bragging rights to say I did it myself.............
                Russell
                Google Photo Album [https://photos.google.com/share/AF1Q...JneXVXc3hVNHd3/]

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                • Re: OctoForno

                  Originally posted by GianniFocaccia View Post
                  Hello All,

                  Glad to be back after all these months considering my company closed its CA offices (laying everyone off) and then I hit a bit of a rough patch with my health which initially landed me in the ER. Feeling much better now, but getting old is really getting old and I'm still in my fifties!

                  Fortunately, I can report I'm on the homestretch on my oven (and now fully-cured dome ). I have completed the entryway save for the last two leveling courses. The welding of my custom-designed flue (by a family member) got derailed but is now at a commercial fabricator who promised it to me last week and now says hopefully day after tomorrow.

                  I really struggled with an approach to constructing my flared entry and integrating a 13.5"(h) x 22.5"(w) inner arch with a 12.5"(h) x 26"(w) outer arch. I finally got it figured out and kicked myself for not attacking it sooner because it really wasn't that difficult a job, just time-consuming. All in all, it was a fun part of the project.

                  Anyway, here's some pics and a profile of my vent. I really wanted the vent architecture to be totally seamless to give the oven exhaust every opportunity to go up rather than out the front of the oven. Hence the trapezoidal shape and an outer arch that is an inch lower than the inner arch. I think it came out okay.

                  I'll report back when I get my flue installed and hopefully a first fire (really?) video a week later.

                  John
                  John, I have been wondering about an issue I see with some of the builds on here. Being a mason by trade, what I see that concerns me is the construction of the entries on some builds. I believe the stronger entry is the type you built, where the arch starts right at the floor. I see some where a short height side wall is built then a shallow arch connects the two short height walls. My thinking is that this could over time collapse. These brick side walls are not tied back into the dome structure itself. Just thought I would pick your brain a little. Here is another issue , have not yet figured out how to make my messages get in the forum. Thanks again for any help

                  Comment


                  • Re: OctoForno

                    Originally posted by Campmaki View Post
                    John, I have been wondering about an issue I see with some of the builds on here. Being a mason by trade, what I see that concerns me is the construction of the entries on some builds. I believe the stronger entry is the type you built, where the arch starts right at the floor. I see some where a short height side wall is built then a shallow arch connects the two short height walls. My thinking is that this could over time collapse. These brick side walls are not tied back into the dome structure itself. Just thought I would pick your brain a little. Here is another issue , have not yet figured out how to make my messages get in the forum. Thanks again for any help
                    I guess I just figured that one out!!!!

                    Comment


                    • Re: OctoForno

                      Originally posted by Campmaki View Post
                      I guess I just figured that one out!!!!


                      Abutments
                      An arch abutment can be a column, wall or combination of wall and shelf angle. Failure of an abutment occurs
                      from excessive lateral movement of the abutment or exceeding the flexural, compressive or shear strength of the
                      abutment. Lateral movement of the abutment is due to the horizontal thrust of the arch. Thrust develops in all
                      arches and the thrust force is greater for flatter arches. The thrust should be resisted so that lateral movement of
                      the abutment does not cause failure in the arch. If the abutment is formed by a combination of brickwork and a
                      non-masonry structural member, rigidity of the non-masonry structural member and rigidity of the ties are very
                      important. Adjustable ties or single or double wire ties are recommended. Corrugated ties should not be used in
                      this application because they do not provide adequate axial stiffness. Consult Technical Notes 31A for further
                      discussion of abutment and tie stiffness requirements.

                      Comment


                      • Re: OctoForno

                        [QUOTE=Campmaki;168640]Abutments
                        An arch abutment can be a column, wall or combination of wall and shelf angle. Failure of an abutment occurs
                        from excessive lateral movement of the abutment or exceeding the flexural, compressive or shear strength of the
                        abutment. Lateral movement of the abutment is due to the horizontal thrust of the arch. Thrust develops in all
                        arches and the thrust force is greater for flatter arches. The thrust should be resisted so that lateral movement of
                        the abutment does not cause failure in the arch. If the abutment is formed by a combination of brickwork and a
                        non-masonry structural member, rigidity of the non-masonry structural member and rigidity of the ties are very
                        important. Adjustable ties or single or double wire ties are recommended. Corrugated ties should not be used in
                        this application because they do not provide adequate axial stiffness. Consult Technical Notes 31A for further
                        discussion of abutment and tie stiffness requirements.[

                        Comment


                        • Re: OctoForno

                          there seems to be an echo

                          Like the information I too built the same type of arch as John. We discussed this a bit a hemispherical arch is much stronger for those reasons you have highlighted.
                          Cheers Colin

                          My Build - Index to Major Build Stages

                          Comment


                          • Re: OctoForno

                            Originally posted by oasiscdm View Post
                            there seems to be an echo

                            Like the information I too built the same type of arch as John. We discussed this a bit a hemispherical arch is much stronger for those reasons you have highlighted.
                            You mean a semicircular arch, Colin

                            The height of the pier which a segmental arch springs from is the real point of weakness. Most of the segmental arches built on here have sufficient thickness/ height ratio in the pier to worry about hinge failure, because the don't support that much load weight. A lot of builds here have buttressed the pier, creating and abutment, removing any possibility of overloading the arch.
                            Old World Stone & Garden

                            Current WFO build - Dry Stone Base & Gothic Vault

                            When we build, let us think that we build for ever.
                            John Ruskin

                            Comment


                            • Re: OctoForno

                              Originally posted by stonecutter View Post
                              You mean a semicircular arch, Colin

                              The height of the pier which a segmental arch springs from is the real point of weakness. Most of the segmental arches built on here have sufficient thickness/ height ratio in the pier to worry about hinge failure, because the don't support that much load weight. A lot of builds here have buttressed the pier, creating and abutment, removing any possibility of overloading the arch.
                              I guess I was not giving my full thought on this issue. I think the shorter side walls need to backed up with at least a 4 inch block. there might not be an issue when using a metal chimney, but what about a clay flue liner. This adds some extra weight and downward pressure to the arch.

                              Comment


                              • Re: OctoForno

                                Originally posted by Campmaki View Post
                                I guess I was not giving my full thought on this issue. I think the shorter side walls need to backed up with at least a 4 inch block. there might not be an issue when using a metal chimney, but what about a clay flue liner. This adds some extra weight and downward pressure to the arch.
                                If the spans were greater than 24", had tall piers, and have 12" flues maybe, but the outer arch you are concerned about doesn't carry 100% of the load anyway. With the oven opening arch as part of the system, strength is further gained by the vent being constructed in a way so that it functions like a vault, even though it technically isn't one. It provides plenty of structural mass to support itself, and a few flues.

                                BTW, I was talking about loading the arch with several clay flues, not metal ones.

                                Just so I'm clear, I am not saying a segmental arch is as strong as a semicircular one. Only that building an abutment ( or buttressing as referred to on the forum) is not necessary in most cases and is over building. It's not a design flaw to omit it, but it is good insurance, and there is nothing wrong with that.
                                Last edited by stonecutter; 01-25-2014, 09:19 AM.
                                Old World Stone & Garden

                                Current WFO build - Dry Stone Base & Gothic Vault

                                When we build, let us think that we build for ever.
                                John Ruskin

                                Comment

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