new build in werribee

[brissie]

Re: new build in werribee

Colin, how strong and abrasion resistant is shiralite?

I am rethinking doors, and the issues with SS and other metals.

If a door was cast with shiralite and perhaps coverd with SS only on the internal face, and external face with wood. Would it work?

Note, if the external strength is good enough, the core could be a better insulator encapsulated in shiralite

also is shiralite safe? carcinogen etc.

Steve.

[david s]

Re: new build in werribee

Colin, how strong and abrasion resistant is shiralite?

I am rethinking doors, and the issues with SS and other metals.

If a door was cast with shiralite and perhaps coverd with SS only on the internal face, and external face with wood. Would it work?

Note, if the external strength is good enough, the core could be a better insulator encapsulated in shiralite

also is shiralite safe? carcinogen etc.

Steve.

That could work, although if the Shiralite were fully contained by the stainless you may as well use loose perlite which would be both better insulating and cheaper.

The problem of using stainless at the hot face is that stainless is a pretty good conductor and therefore not a good insulator. If it is thin and it needs to be so that it won't sap too much heat, it is likely to give you sealing problems as stainless has a propensity to warp with heat.

[brissie]

Re: new build in werribee

That could work, although if the Shiralite were fully contained by the stainless you may as well use loose perlite which would be both better insulating and cheaper.

The problem of using stainless at the hot face is that stainless is a pretty good conductor and therefore not a good insulator. If it is thin and it needs to be so that it won't sap too much heat, it is likely to give you sealing problems as stainless has a propensity to warp with heat.

Okay leave SS out of it. almost any commodity metal will do.

If the Shiralite product can withstand the workload
it could be:
wood -- Shiralite -- metal
or
wood -- Shiralite

Can Shiralite handle this? The metal is only for protection and may be disregarded if Shiralite is tough.

For a door it may outlast hebel, and be easy to make. Hebel breaks down with heat, but Shiralite may not at WFO temperatures.

[david s]

Re: new build in werribee

I tried a 25 mm Hebel panel attached via stainless bolts to a wooden door. It only lasted about four firings before cracking. I know Dave's Hebel door has lasted well, but I think his is much thicker. So far I've found no matter what you use, if you try to make it robust enough it is not insulating enough and the reverse also applies.

Glass slumpers often use Hebel as moulds for their work, but they only last about four firings (generally around 900 C)
I have been experimenting with the use of expanded clay, perlite and foam in varying ratios in conjunction with clay to make suitable panels (fired to 1000C) the main problem is getting the shrinkage rate right and the tendency for clay tiles to warp on drying and firing.

I'd be interested to hear how your Shiralite would perform.

[oasiscdm]

Re: new build in werribee

The shiralite would work but would need to be contained directly against heat and reinforced. I have enough shiralite left over to try this later as a filler between something. I will construct my door in 2 front half and back: half. I am looking at then containing ceramic tape locked into the 2 halves as a sealer around the door that seals against the entry arch side walls. I have noticed that out will end up blackened by soot. If that makes sense. The shiitake would need reinforcing in this type of set up I think.

Aren't blast doors metal?

The insulation I can try is hebel, calsil, shiralite, a combination is also possible.

Looking at SS front, 4" of insulation. Back half SS or ?????? Well isolate the SS from the brick at the front. 2 halves joined by 3 to 4 studs with a sour temp thermometre in the middle.

[david s]

Re: new build in werribee

The shiralite would work but would need to be contained. Directly against heat I have enough shiralite left over to try this later as a filler between something. I will construct my door in 2 front half and back: half. I am looking at then containing ceramic tape locked into the 2 halves as a sealer around the door. If that makes sense. The shiitake would need reinforcing in that set up I think.

Shiitake?? Are we cooking mushrooms now?

There are a number of different Shiralite products with varying densities, strength and insulating properties. You may be lucky enough to have the one that is suitable for this application. Try it and see. It's strength can also be enhanced without altering its insulating properties if it is sintered ( fired to around 1000 C)

[oasiscdm]

Re: new build in werribee

David mine is mw 128 the test strip I made at 30mm thick could be broken by hand but required a fair amount of force at 100mm would be very difficult. The sintering idea is a good one.

[cobblerdave]

Re: new build in werribee

Gudday
hebel works in the temps I have put it through. Like Davids says its main disadvantage is that its soft. It cracks and chips quite easy. My first door had a ruddy great big crack in it but still worked. I build MK 11 its still going a year later with a chipped edge. I still look at them as temporary till I convinced that I can get a proper working insulated door that doesn't require welding gloves to hold the handles.
The only two examples that I have seen, in the flesh so to speak, require that. One is aluminium, looks great, light, hot as hell. The other S/Steel, with oven gasket separating the inner and outer. Guess what, the bolts holding it together transmit heat and after a coupla hours, again hot handles.
At least with my current hebel one the heat doesn't even melt the silastic that holds the hebel to the wood face!
Now that I have written this down I have an Idea. Perhaps I should hardface the inner surface of the hebel in metal and leave a naked piece on the side, so no heat can transfer. That's the advantage of hebel over FB insulation , no fibres or nasty bits only cement so you can leave some uncovered.
I might attack this in the new year and make a complete new door to test this, as Im certainly keeping the current door just in case.
Regards Dave

[david s]

Re: new build in werribee

David mine is mw 128 the test strip I made at 30mm thick could be broken by hand but required a fair amount of force at 100mm would be very difficult. The sintering idea is a good one.

So what is the density of the stuff? Do you have a data sheet on it?
I think a 100 mm panel is way too cumbersome.

[oasiscdm]

Re: new build in werribee

128 ilb something.

Have been asking for days sheet for some time. Seems they forget the fewest there website requires a userid.

[oasiscdm]

Re: new build in werribee

hey Brickie or anybody else that uses this flour - if you see this I got some wallaby flour today.

Have you tried the Pizza Dough recipe on the pack?. I'm just curious.

Thinking I might make 2 batches Forno style and the one on the packet.

[cobblerdave]

Re: new build in werribee

David mine is mw 128 the test strip I made at 30mm thick could be broken by hand but required a fair amount of force at 100mm would be very difficult. The sintering idea is a good one.

Gudday
Like Davids said 100 mm is a bit unwieldy,you could also go with 30mm and depend on the face of the door to supply the strength.
Regards Dave

[brickie in oz]

Re: new build in werribee

hey Brickie or anybody else that uses this flour - if you see this I got some wallaby flour today.

Have you tried the Pizza Dough recipe on the pack?. I'm just curious.

Thinking I might make 2 batches Forno style and the one on the packet.

Wallaby flour is excellent, its all I use now, its just so good.

[Liteceeper]

Re: new build in werribee

hey Brickie or anybody else that uses this flour - if you see this I got some wallaby flour today.

Have you tried the Pizza Dough recipe on the pack?. I'm just curious.

Thinking I might make 2 batches Forno style and the one on the packet.

Hi Colin
I tried the Wallaby recipe side by side with Forno style, the Wallaby was easier to handle but forno style gave better oven rise. Tipo 00 is what I am trying now, and just bought Laucke Organic unbleached to see how that goes.

Hope you had a great xmas

[oasiscdm]

Re: new build in werribee

am very happy with oven saturation fired it up last night for Pizza cleared eventually taking more logs than I thought 3 small and 3 larger to get it going ok once I had coals. Oven cleared. Son made his pizza, partner made hers. I made mine and dropped it on the bloody floor moral don't try taking pizza inside on a long handled peel.. and make a smaller peel.

I fired it up again after this let it burn like hell until midnight walls surface temp opposite side of fire 380c still not hot enough but sealed up anyway.

Today temp around 280c in the morning made 2 loaves of bread yum. First loaf bit burnt on top second loaf perfect.

Checked the thermocouples at 4pm inside and outside of brick 228c air temp 228c oven nicely saturated. Outside of blanket around 45-50c but it is extremely hot today. Will cook dinner rack of lamb.

Still struggling getting the floor temp up there.

Will fire it again when no fire ban in place and hold temp high for a longer period.