Texman Build

[texman]

Re: Texman Build

Regarding droop, I would (did) re-cut the topmost brick adjacent to the arch on each side. If you increase the brick's length, it will force it to sit higher on the arch, helping to adjust for the droop. If I knew then what I know now, I would increase the outer joint size by 3/16" for each brick next to the arch. I was able to do this somewhat with my entire brick since I tapered (both top and bottom) every brick in the dome.

The point? Don't worry - be happy.

John

Thanks for the kind words. Would you remove the brick that i have in place now or start the next course?
Did you cut all four sides of each brick then?

[GianniFocaccia]

Re: Texman Build

Now my arch center top is about 3/8" off according to the IT. I can make it work, i hope.
I changed my approach to setting brick too. As you said earlier, "cut three of four and set them" I was doing that, but always starting at the right side (facing oven) Now that arch is set, i am alternating from one side to another instead of starting at right an continuing around. It is a lot more enjoyable and i think produces a better result since it gives the brick time to set before pushing against them to set the next brick. I will probably have to make some "custom" cuts to correct the droop and extra 3/8" on arch.

Firstly, that is one beautiful arch, Tracy! The symmetry and craftsmanship are undeniable. To say it turned out 'nice' is truly an understatetment.

Regarding building direction, I did the exact same thing as you, but started from the left side (facing the oven). By changing direction, I found that I changed my perspective of cutting/fitting, and it became easier to do (left brain/right brain kinda thing?)

Regarding droop, I would (did) re-cut the topmost brick adjacent to the arch on each side. If you increase the brick's length, it will force it to sit higher on the arch, helping to adjust for the droop. If I knew then what I know now, I would increase the outer joint size by 3/16" for each brick next to the arch. I was able to do this somewhat with my entire brick since I tapered (both top and bottom) every brick in the dome.

Regarding the 3/8" variance between your arch and IT, no worries. You can gradually make it up over several courses. Since this is something no one ever sees, if you still feel bad about it once your oven has been completed, you can always hoist one or three to your private secret each and every time you cook in it!

I hate to admit it, but for as much time and care I took in building my dome, every time I look inside my eye automatically goes right to the flaws and errors I made. The point? Don't worry - be happy.

John

[Amac]

Re: Texman Build

I'd leave it alone, there is very little value added with the effort to do it over...

I'd agree with that asessment. Mind you I made no attempt to redo it.
I ended up with an egg shaped rather than a circular plugstone. You can gradually correct it with mortar as you go up and over the arch.

Thanks-i used sailors then. first two courses vertical and then started the dome curve.

I don't think so I think from what smackzed is saying the sailor course would result in narrower walls at the bottom of the dome. This from wikipedia agrees. The pic shows the six different brick positions.

Bond: a pattern in which brick is laid.
Stretcher: a brick laid horizontally, flat with the long side of the brick exposed on the outer face of a wall.
Header: a brick laid flat with the short end of the brick exposed.
Soldier: a brick laid vertically with the narrow ("stretcher") side exposed.
Sailor: a brick laid vertically with the broad side exposed.
Rowlock or Bull Header[1]: a brick laid on the long, narrow side with the small or "header" side exposed.
Shiner: a brick laid on the long narrow side with the broad side exposed.

Your usage seems to be the norm on the forum so most people understand what is meant.

[deejayoh]

Re: Texman Build

Looking good Tracy!

Thanks John. I got the mark done, but did not have that much to cut. The first two arch bricks were set and needed adjustment. I used the angle grinder to remove the unwanted brick and bring the first two arch bricks back to a smooth transition to the inner wall of oven. The rest of the arch bricks were close so i decided i would use the same approach on them after the arch was set. Not the correct way to do this, but i think it will work.

I end up doing the exact same thing. Ground off the backs of the bricks to get a smooth transition. Mine looks "ok" though I had a tough time getting the round grinder to conform to the shape of the arch.

On the mortar technique, mine got a lot better when I got a jointing tool and stiff brush to tool/finish the joints

[texman]

Re: Texman Build

Hi Texman, I've gotta say I love your kitchen setting, I'm looking forward to building some sort of cover at my home oven, with winter coming up it makes it impossible on the wet days!
Keep up the good work.

Russell.

Thanks Russell. Great website "how to lay bricks"
The cover is great for me. I can work (and cook) just about year around and it stays dry. It gets so hot in Texas in the summer and when it rains, it comes in buckets usually. If you want all the goodies (electric, sewer, sink with hot/cold water, tv, stereo) having the outdoor kitchen share the same wall with the indoor kitchen makes it easier.
Tracy
I remember the young ones, funny stuff.

[texman]

Re: Droop is just a bump in the road Tracy!

As far as your 'droop' goes, is the height of the arch correct? If yes, I wouldn't look back and would leave it alone. It is barely noticeable to me and it will not show much in the end....Noone will notice. If you must do it over, build a form with the size and shape you want and put the bricks against it. I'd leave it alone, there is very little value added with the effort to do it over....That is, unless you can't sleep at night

When you get older, many things 'droop'....your tolerance for 'droop' increases'....droop' isn't that bad in small doses

Notice the shims under the arch form. Pull the shims out and the form comes right off. No shims and you destroy the arch when you remove the form.

Thanks Lee
The arch is good i think. 11.25'" height of arch, dome of 18.25=61.65%
I used the form like you described. I was thinking of removing the droop bricks next to arch. I dont want to touch that arch, i like it. It isn't perfect, but turned out nice i think.
I am sleeping good; especially after a day climbing around that oven setting brick. Thank you for the guidance.
Tracy

[texman]

Re: Texman Build

Tracy,

This should go fairly quickly using your IT (I used a string). Start at the top-center and scribe down to the base of each side to get the line you want. Just make sure that you have spacers/wedges between the bricks to simulate the mortar gaps. Excellent build so far.
John

Thanks John. I got the mark done, but did not have that much to cut. The first two arch bricks were set and needed adjustment. I used the angle grinder to remove the unwanted brick and bring the first two arch bricks back to a smooth transition to the inner wall of oven. The rest of the arch bricks were close so i decided i would use the same approach on them after the arch was set. Not the correct way to do this, but i think it will work.
I wanted to get them perfect before setting, but the i am still struggling with the top of the arch to the dome placement. I had it all set (i thought) and then built the arch. Now my arch center top is about 3/8" off according to the IT. I can make it work, i hope.
I changed my approach to setting brick too. As you said earlier, "cut three of four and set them" I was doing that, but always starting at the right side (facing oven) Now that arch is set, i am alternating from one side to another instead of starting at right an continuing around. It is a lot more enjoyable and i think produces a better result since it gives the brick time to set before pushing against them to set the next brick. I will probably have to make some "custom" cuts to correct the droop and extra 3/8" on arch. If that is the worst, i will jump for joy!
Tracy

[OzOvenBuilder]

Re: Texman Build

Hi Texman, I've gotta say I love your kitchen setting, I'm looking forward to building some sort of cover at my home oven, with winter coming up it makes it impossible on the wet days!
Keep up the good work.

Russell.

[Lburou]

Droop is just a bump in the road Tracy!

As far as your 'droop' goes, is the height of the arch correct? If yes, I wouldn't look back and would leave it alone. It is barely noticeable to me and it will not show much in the end....Noone will notice. If you must do it over, build a form with the size and shape you want and put the bricks against it. I'd leave it alone, there is very little value added with the effort to do it over....That is, unless you can't sleep at night

When you get older, many things 'droop'....your tolerance for 'droop' increases'....droop' isn't that bad in small doses

[texman]

Re: Texman Build

Just to clear up any confusion. A brick that is stood upright with the 2" side as the face is a sailor. An upright brick with the 4.5 face showing is a sailor.

Thanks-i used sailors then. first two courses vertical and then started the dome curve.
Tracy

[texman]

Re: Texman Build

I built the arch this weekend and set course 4 and started course 5. I was happy with the results of my labor thus far, until i was posting pics this morning. I was looking at the pictures of the arch and saw the droop.
I have literally spent hours reading threads to avoid it, and here i am infected with it. It would be tonight before i could remove any bricks, so i dont think i want to do that (mortar really set by then) I will go back and study the lessons i thought i had learned from the ones that mastered the droop and see if i can both figure out what i did wrong as well as how to fix it now.
I still think i did good on the arch. Getting better with the mortar too.
I am checking level in these pictures as you can see. Pretty good, but slightly lower on the right when facing the oven.
I didnt even see that droop till i was looking at the pictures. It is sneaky.
Tracy
I am using the steel pieces to hold brick in place (when i mix mortar too wet)
learning...
(i could build a pretty good oven if i started over now)

[GianniFocaccia]

Re: Texman Build

I think i can mark the unset arch bricks and recut them on wetsaw

Tracy,

This should go fairly quickly using your IT (I used a string). Start at the top-center and scribe down to the base of each side to get the line you want. Just make sure that you have spacers/wedges between the bricks to simulate the mortar gaps. Excellent build so far.
John

[smackzed]

Re: Texman Build

Just to clear up any confusion. A brick that is stood upright with the 2" side as the face is a sailor. An upright brick with the 4.5 face showing is a sailor.

[Amac]

Re: Texman Build

Tracy

Framing square and clamp might be the easiest, it would depend on a level and clean floor, but so does the form method

I had something like this in mind - but in the end the only part of the dome row where there is a real need is exactly the bricks which join to the arch when you get about halfway or more up the arch. Gulf used a laser level set up at the back of the dome which you can find on his (and my) thread. It looks like it would work well and did for Gulf. I had bought one of those (at some Lidl special buy thingy) but couldn't find it when I wanted it - so I had a little dip at those points even though I consciously fought it and thought it looked OK. It is actually hard to see.
BTW in case anyone is tempted to copy it - I changed those three hinged legs on my IT so that the three legs are at roughly 120? because there was some movement in the setup shown there.
Aidan

[texman]

Re: Texman Build

"Does that block on the form board slide up? If so good idea. One drawback of the IT is it doesn't keep the height consistent along the row - and a level is needed at least now and then. I tried to think of some attachment but gave up on it. Some hybrid IT and formboard would solve it".(Quote from Amac from Dennis build)
I have been thinking about the same thing. see crude sketches and see if this would work?
1. Use a plumb bob-might work after you get it settled; builder would have to retie at each course.
2. Framing square and clamp might be the easiest, it would depend on a level and clean floor, but so does the form method.
3. I am trying to think of linkage to do this with all thread.
4. Using wood it can be done with clamps i think easily.
Sorry about the drawings, i hope you can see what i am thinking.
Tracy