2024 Neapolitan oven build

[SableSprings]

Giovanni & AJH, I'm interested in the new RFX wireless meat probe from Thermoworks. The wireless probes are reported to easily retain connections through high temps in all cooking situations. Sounds like the probes would be ideal for WFO roasting & baking.

[Giovanni Rossi]

Really came together nicely. I'm excited for you as you start to reap the benefits.

Something you might want to consider is getting a BBQ meat thermometer probe to monitor temps without needing to take off the door.

Second using a wireless probe when roasting, though I have been unhappy with the accuracy of the one I bought. Anyone want promote one providing good results?

Hmm... maybe a video feed too...

[AJH]

I'm getting very similar performance on my oven. Something you might want to consider is getting a BBQ meat thermometer probe to monitor temps without needing to take off the door. Most are rated to handle heat up to 375C, so if you wait till morning after pizza, you can open the door once to clean out the oven and put in the probes to monitor temperatures wirelessly till you hit your target for the next cook. I have an older wired thermometer that I used on my last cool down. I found it reads a little low, but it was easy to calculate an adjustment factor and then use it to plot a temperature graph. I'm still working out things to cook with the residual heat. Planning on doing a chicken or a turkey sometime in the next month, maybe a roast with carrots and potatoes...

Pulled pork was fantastic at 120C. Season it, place it in a pan to catch all the drippings, stick it in the oven before work, and have perfectly juicy pulled pork after work

[daidensacha]

Oven performance

I dreamed about having my oven for years, all the concepts I had have been blown away, in a good way. The oven is far beyond what I could have imagined. Amazing how powerful it is, which I totally underestimated and consequently had some burnt pizzas to begin with.

I‘m still finding the balance of knowing how fast and how long to preheat the oven, but I‘m just being scientific with it experiment and find what works best. On my last bake on Monday, I had set up my kindling tower, and put extra wood in the oven while the oven was still warm from the last bake. The wood was dry and warm, and lit really easily. Burnt faster too, which is ok because it build up the bed of glowing coals. After 2.5 hours, I moved the coals to the side of the oven, and had to remove a bucket full as there was just to much. The dome and floor were both at 500C, so I wiped the floor down with a freezing wet cloth to cool it a bit, but that only took 10C out of the floor. I still had to wait a bit before putting my first pizza in the oven to save burning the base. When I did put the pizza in, it was my best to date, perfect crust full of air, very light to eat, crispy on the outside and soft and chewy inside.

Even with the oven at 500C, sometimes over 550C, there is no heat reaching the outside of the dome. Also, the chimney is cool on the outside, with no heat on the outer wall. My insulated double walled stainless steel flue gets to 10C on the outside. I thought it would get much hotter, but with the arch, vent and schamott flue being the first 1.5 meters above the vent, that takes the heat and is well insulated with ceramic fibre and perlite.

Day 2 after baking the oven is consistently around 300C, with day 3 around 220C, and day 4 170C. Using this retained heat I have been baking bread, and tried some ribs which were the best I ever had. Using the ovens retained heat, and having to open it up to measure the temp wth the IR thermometer, I understand now the advantage of installing a probe thermometer to be able to know the internal temp without having to open it. Knowing that they all fail at some point, i will install one eventually, but in such a way with a sheath that I can easily replace it when needed.

Finally put my light on the front of the oven last week, and added a double power point under the landing, along with 6 more power points alone the back wall of the terrace. You can never have enough power points is my view. I ordered my granite benchtop, but that won‘t come for a few more weeks, and then I‘ll only install it when the temp is warm enough.

[daidensacha]

Walled city and don't know any better, went there in the fall before the Xmas market around Octoberfest so the market was not going yet. I also use a SS blow pipe to clear the ash off the cooking area as well as a bellow to get added wood flaming. Like David said, need to be a little careful and put something on the blow end of the pipe so you don't chip a tooth.

Ah yes, the walls from the old times. Most of the cities i have seen still having remnants of them out grew them long ago. Augsburg near us has a big one, or parts of it with the big old entry arches.

Nördlingen not far from us, is one of the few cities in Germany that still has the full wall from the old times. The city outgrew it and now surrounds it, but you can walk around the wall, it‘s impressive.

I got a 10mm stainless steel pipe this arvo, only 1 meter and I think I might need to get a longer one to reach in the oven. Pizza tomorrow, so lets see how it goes. I‘ll put a piece of hose on the end so it reaches, and protects my teeth.

[UtahBeehiver]

Walled city and don't know any better, went there in the fall before the Xmas market around Octoberfest so the market was not going yet. I also use a SS blow pipe to clear the ash off the cooking area as well as a bellow to get added wood flaming. Like David said, need to be a little careful and put something on the blow end of the pipe so you don't chip a tooth.

[daidensacha]

Yes, I have one of those rubber chair leg tips fitted to the pipe, with a hole drilled through its centre, for exactly the same reason.

I googled a bit yesterday, and will check out the hardware store this morning as I need to buy some materials to put power points in the terrace.

Have you tried a foot bellow pump connected to the tube? I would need one about 1 to 1.5 meter long so I‘m interested to find out how much lung power is needed to blow the ash through such a tube. I‘ll give it a go.

[daidensacha]

The Christmas Markets is on my A list to see sometime, especially Regensburg.

I‘m curious what draws you to Regensburg?

That’s a bit under 2 hours from us. Nuremberg supposedly has really nice Xmas markets (on my bucket list), which is not far from Regensburg. Keep that in mind if your ever in the neighbourhood. Thierhaupten, where I live wins the vote for the best local Xmas markets, although its more social than anything, as a life time of people who ever lived in Thierhaupten always come to catch up at the Xmas market.

My favorite is Salzburg, also just a couple of hours away. I always have such a good time there. The ambience of Salzburg with the old buildings is so beautiful.

[david s]

Just a quick caution on a blow pipe. In my rush to use one for my first pizza party, I fashioned one of proper length and went at it. I worked from the front to back while sliding the tip of the tube side to side. While I made sure to not have any floor bricks stand proud such that a peel would catch when sliding front to back, there are still joints. The pipe snagged one of those joints and I'm still not sure how I didn't crack a tooth! Now I have a 2" piece of rubber hose snugged on the end as a cushion.

Yes, I have one of those rubber chair leg tips fitted to the pipe, with a hole drilled through its centre, for exactly the same reason.
Apart from clearing away the ash, the blowpipe also works really well to give the fire on the side a blast if the flame dies or some assistance if you have trouble starting the fire. It’s an essential tool in my view.

[UtahBeehiver]

The Christmas Markets is on my A list to see sometime, especially Regensburg.

[Giovanni Rossi]

Just a length of thin stainless pipe about 1I 0mm diameter, Mine is only about 500mm long, but my oven is small a larger oven would need a longer pipe. I made it from a disused drying rack. Just make sure you blow, don't suck.

Just a quick caution on a blow pipe. In my rush to use one for my first pizza party, I fashioned one of proper length and went at it. I worked from the front to back while sliding the tip of the tube side to side. While I made sure to not have any floor bricks stand proud such that a peel would catch when sliding front to back, there are still joints. The pipe snagged one of those joints and I'm still not sure how I didn't crack a tooth! Now I have a 2" piece of rubber hose snugged on the end as a cushion.

[daidensacha]

Baking dishes…

Yesterday I put an enamel baking dish in the oven that was 300C with some ribs, and it held up well, and was relatively easy to clean, but I‘ve been looking at options to have dedicated baking dishes specifically for the wood oven.

Cast Iron
Cast iron was my initial thought. I do have a big pot and lid, which is brilliant and will be used in there at some point. Also some cast iron fry pans that will also be useful. But its heavy, and I was wondering it there is something else.

Carbon Steel
I got my self a 40 x 30cm carbon steel baking dish, which I think will be handy, and and comes in bigger sizes too, 50x35cm, 60x40cm. I‘ve also been considering at some point getting a 40cm carbon steel frypan with two loop handles.

Hotel pans…
This morning I was googling and came across a webpage of a woodfired oven company which I found very informative. They mentioned hotel pans as a really good option, giving pros and cons of the various possibilities. Steel, easy to clean, dishwasher proof, heat resistant, come in various sizes, and are very affordable. or example, 6 pieces 33 x 53.7 x 9cm for 60 Euro. Says food can be heated up to 932C in them.
For the family Xmas dinner this year I will do 2 ducks, and have been considering what is the best option to use for baking dishes. Also after cooking ribs yesterday in my oven baking dish, I need something better.

Anyone used them in the forno bravo ovens?

[david s]

Just a length of thin stainless pipe about 10mm diameter, Mine is only about 500mm long, but my oven is small a larger oven would need a longer pipe. I made it from a disused drying rack. Just make sure you blow, don't suck.

[daidensacha]

The transfer of heat by conduction through either the dome or floor bricks is dependant on their thermal conductivity. Rushing the heat up does not alter the speed of this heat travel much and can be damaging to the refractory or bricks, creating micro cracking (not visible). Far kinder to allow the oven to take up the heat at its own rate.High duty bricks will be denser and therefore more thermally conductive than low duty bricks. most builders go for the medium duty bricks for this reason, as well as the high duty bricks being really hard to cut and therefore killing diamond blades at a faster rate. All ovens will have a floor that's too hot for the first pizza. I prefer to use a blowpipe to clean the floor rather than a wet mop which creates a mess and pulls too much valuable heat out of the floor. I find in my oven that to cook the first one half in the inner chamber and half in the entry, turning frequently, works pretty well. Subsequent pizzas can be pushed further in as the sting is taken out of the floor. It is considered desirable for the piza bottom to be just a little burnt. This is called "leoparding", where there will be some small black dots on the bottom like a leopard's spots. This imparts some slight bitterness to the crust as well as ensuring a crunchy base.

A fire maintained on the side is mandatory to maintain dome heat. As you've found, preheating small pieces of wood in the entry helps them ignite almost immeduately when placed on the fire on the side. It also provides a perfectly adequate oven light.

I really appreciate your depth of experience.

When I had fires going every day for a week to dry out the dome, I wasn‘t focussed on heating the bricks, just feeding the fire and the heat built organically as the thermal mass absorbed heat. For my first pizza bakes it was the same, had a small fire going thought the day which I fed a few smaller logs at a time, was about 5 hours, created a lot of hot coals, and used not a lot of wood surprisingly. The oven was pumping hot that night, overly so.

My second bake, I purposely decreased my preheat time to see how it would go and what was possible, but I was overly focussed on feeding the fire logs to get it hot faster. It wasn‘t working, and I will learn, but it seems much wiser to find that balance where I‘m feeding the fire without trying to push it, and allow the thermal mass to take in the heat in its own time. It does work really well, as proven with the first bake, but I will keep refining my method to improve the heating process.

I hadn‘t heard of using air to clean the floor, but i‘m curious what you use to blow air through the blowpipe? Just lung power, or something with more volume like a compressor?

My pizza this last bake had perfect leoparding on the bases, but this time around it was the opposite to the first, and I didn‘t find that medium where the tops cooked equally as fast as the bottoms. First time round the bottoms cooked faster than the tops, this last time the tops cooked faster than the bottoms. So I was making use of the hotter heat zones to finish. of the pizza bottoms. Wet rag did bring the heat down a little too much, but it was clean. I will investigate the blowpipe method.

[daidensacha]

I'm still learning myself and what I have found is to make sure you do not have any loose flour on the bottom of the pizza. A perforated pizza peel helps with this. Also, I try to keep the floor temp around 385 (725 F) to limit the overcooked bottom. I lower the floor temp with a damp towel on my long handle brush. Use it a few times to clean the ash, rinse it off in between, and then launch when the temp comes back up to where you want it.

I did 10 pizzas on Saturday and had 2 in at a time. Back of the oven was hotter and cooked better. The front was where I cooked the over topped pizzas slower

I make my dough with sourdough starter (wild yeast). Mix it up the day before, rest at room temp (19 C) for 4 to 6 hours, make dough balls and rest overnight in fridge (3 C), then take out for final proof on counter at room temp for 4 to 6 hours. Looking to try the biga and poolish method at some point.

I‘ve been putting the balls in a bowl of semolina, turning the balls over in the bowl before putting them on the bench to kneed them out. I like it more, doesn‘t burn like flour, and the pizzas go on and off the pizza peel easily with it.

I was full into baking sourdough bread for 3 years, and used semolina was my choice for making loaves easy to put in my oven. I do have a perforated peel, and it works, but I‘m also now just dusting off the dough to remove loose semolina before putting toppings, and I just put a small amount on the front of the pizza peel before sliding it under the pizza. I converted to biga after coming across a recipe for a no kneed biga bread which I adapted to make wholemeal loaves, and it is my favourite now. I love the crust and base that the biga gives for the pizza.

I also used a wet rag around the pizza turner (for want of a better word) to clean the floor after moving the coals and fire to the side of the oven. What you describe is exactly how my oven was too. Back was hotter, and I put the pizzas in the front where it was cooler, so I could let them bake longer before moving them to the back to finish off the bottoms.

I‘ve only had to pizza bakes so far. I‘m enjoying the learning, and it is a process of experience, because the oven is beyond what I could have imagined. I have underestimated the power of the heat in it, and am starting to reset my concepts. It’s really impressive how hot it gets, and how well it cooks.

Yesterday I made the mistake of putting some ribs in the oven, at 300C a day after cooking pizza. 50 minutes later they were ok, very tasty, but over cooked. I will wait 2 days after cooking pizza in future before putting meat in the oven.