Starting new 36" build

[UtahBeehiver]

Re: Starting new 36" build

DJ,

What is your thoughts on the aluminum HVAC tape adjacent to your melamine?

[texman]

Re: Starting new 36" build

something else that would cause you more work: a brick/stone veneer on the top and end of that retaining wall with a lip to cover that counter top and wall bevel would look good and give you a nice "backsplash" look (place to set a cold beverage out of the way of pizza tools) I sorta had the same problem on my flagstone backsplash where it is against the brick of the house. I didn't think i could caulk it to look right and ended up using backer rod and it looks fine. I just stuffed it in the uneven gap between the brick and flagstone. Don't have a pic right now. Difference is mine is covered there by roof.
I was able to remove my form(masonite)that i used between my bar and the brick of the house. You just have to wait until it is good and dry and the concrete shrinks a bit. Leave an end that protrudes so you have something to get a hold of and start working it out.
Tracy

[deejayoh]

Re: Starting new 36" build

here is a picture of the back corner of the form, so you can see how it meets the wall:



The top of the form is just under the edge of the bevel

[Breadjunkie]

Re: Starting new 36" build

I assume the base cabinets (metal studs) are attached to the wall and the counters will essentially float? Or will they be bonded somehow to the base? I think there shouldn't be a risk of cracking since the counters will not be locked in by anything. The joint at the back may open up with time though even with the metal bar in there. Making that joint look good is a challenge. As for a temporary form, it would have to be super slick to be able to snake it out of there without making a mess of the edge. The problem would be how to get a grip on it. But then again maybe it would come right out. I poured some sidewalk stepping stones once with 2x4's ripped with a slight bevel to separate them. After the pour I ran screws part way in and used a block of wood and crow bar to pry the 2x4's up and out. Some of them came out in pieces but they eventually all came out. In your case you would probably use something much thinner, but you still could use the screw and crow bar to get a purchase and ease them out. You're still gonna have to calk or grout the metal strip in place and that could get messy. You could coat the wall and just pour right up to it so there would be hair line crack there. If it's at the bottom of the bevel there's already a visual line there anyway. For leveling the pour you could make a screed with an extension that runs along the top of the wall. It's that old devil in the details again, but whatever you decide to do after it's done you won't look back and it will be fine! Whew, not bad for a quiet guy!

[deejayoh]

Re: Starting new 36" build

^^^
Tracy -
that is an awesome idea to put a temporary form in place and then replace it with the metal. I had not thought of that! I can put some plastic or something in there as a form and yank it out when the concrete is set. that also solves my concern with potentially sanding the metal if it is already in place.

As for the retaining wall, I guess it is kind of a backsplash, but it really only sticks up about an inch over the countertop

[texman]

Re: Starting new 36" build

DJ
Not real sure, so i hope you get some other responses, but i think you want a flexible break there because of the heavier, denser retaining wall and the thinner and separate counters and the different expansion that each will have in addition to the counters mounted to a different floor plane than the wall. Also, if the retaining wall heaves at all, you wouldn't want it to crack a pretty counter top. I like the idea of the stainless/aluminum rod or flat, though. That would look cool i think. Maybe put a form there that is just a little thicker than your metal piece and after the concrete is set, remove the form and back fill the gap with some self leveling concrete joint compound leaving room to place your steel in the top of the gap for reveal. Still thinking, too. Are you planning to incorporate the top of that retaining wall as part of the counters or leave as it is?
Tracy

[deejayoh]

Re: Starting new 36" build

will the finished counter height equal the retaining wall height?

there's a 45 degree bevel at the top of the wall, about 3/4 inch high. If I make them perfectly level, the countertops will be just below the bottom of the bevel - Maybe 1/16-1/8 inch under. I think that I will probably make the counters be even with the bottom of the bevel in order to give them a slight slant toward the front (which I think you suggested earlier!)

I will try to post some photos tonight

[UtahBeehiver]

Re: Starting new 36" build

Deejayoh,

Finished my forming/reinforcing for the counters this weekend, picked up quikrete 5000 and was going to pour this weekend but could not find the color I wanted locally (at least in 5 lb bags, everything was 25 pounder - yikes) so had to mail order. Understand black/charcoal is a popular color so good luck.

[texman]

Re: Starting new 36" build

will the finished counter height equal the retaining wall height?

[deejayoh]

Re: Starting new 36" build

Thanks for the encouragement Joe. I tweaked and fiddled with my forms all weekend. I thought I had it all done, and then realized that the form I made for my precast oven landing was 3" deep, and needed to be 2.5". Doh! Back to the circular saw I guess. But I think I have the forms for my BBQ area in good shape and ready to pour once the concrete arrives.

Funny how with time the plan keeps evolving though. I was at a restaurant last night that had charcoal concrete counters, polished - no aggregate. I really liked the way that they looked. I think I am going to skip adding the glass to my counters. One less thing to worry about.

Something I'd love feedback on - The back of my BBQ counter will be up against an existing retaining wall. Since I am casting in place, I am concerned about the appearance of the joint where the counter meets the wall. I'm not planing to use any rebar to join the two - so cracks along that joint are likely. My thought was that I might install a piece of stainless or aluminum flat bar along the back edge of the countertop, right at counter height. It would serve as a visual break between the counter and the wall, and would also be a handy guide for getting the countertop level when I am pouring. Any thoughts/advice on that idea?

Dennis

[Breadjunkie]

Re: Starting new 36" build

Dennis,
My 2 cents.........the form is everything. If you have any doubts keep tweaking it until it's solid. Concrete has a way of finding the form's weakness so once you start pouring there's no turning back. The nice thing about concrete though is you can fix it! Read up on all the literature you can find about finishing, i.e., when to float, when to trowel, how to work the edges. It can be overworked as much as underworked. Anyway, your project is looking super. You've done good work so far so I'm sure the counters will turn out fine.
I'm having to switch to other more pressing projects around here so my WFO is on hold for now. I have to live vicariously through everyone else's projects. But if this great weather we're having continues I might still get to it.
Regards, Joe

[texman]

Re: Starting new 36" build

Bummer on the order lead time. At least you aren't cutting chimneys down like me. I used masonite (i think that is what it's called,pegboard w/o holes) I think the luan or melamine is better and i wished i would have used one of those. The moisture makes that masonite do strange things. I should have taped it, i think. Sounds like you have the bases covered. The main problem i had was keeping that vertical edge form supported and straight. It was screwed into my base material and caulked along that joint and double layered, but the moisture and troweling made it a little wavy. Not bad, but you know how it is, the guy that did it can always see it. Looking forward to that polished counter of yours though.
Tracy
Oh crap, i am showing my screwups again. I have so many it's hard not to.

[deejayoh]

Re: Starting new 36" build

DJ
You could do some nice curves next to the oven and the end in your forms. Looking forward to the results. What are you using for base layer?

Tracy -
thanks for all the tips. I am putting a curve on the landing at the front of the oven. What did you use for your curve form? I was thinking 2 layers of luan

On the base layer, I screwed plywood strips into the metal studs around each opening, and then cut a piece of Hardieboard to fit in there. None of them span more than 14-16 inches, so I figure the weight will not be a problem. I poured a 4 inch slab on hardie with bigger span than that. I will be leaving the hardie in place. I plan to fill up all the gaps and cracks with caulk before I pour, and then tape over all the seams. Sound like it should work?

Oh, and I changed my plan to use the Quikrete countertop mix - which is special order with a 2 week delivery window, so I am going to be waiting a bit for the pour. Grr..

[deejayoh]

Re: Starting new 36" build

Just a note on the fiberglass mesh. Make sure that the web size is larger than the largest aggregate in the mix, otherwise it creates a fracture plane in the slab.

Good call out. I may need to rethink my mix as the QK5000 does have gravel. I think the countertop mix has only fine aggregate.

[texman]

Re: Starting new 36" build

DJ
I did the same on thing on the brick arch for the base. I tried to "freehand" it since i was so good from building an oven. NOT. I tore it down and started over "freehanding again" ended up stopping and building a frame to keep me straight and saved the second one using the frame and the dang angle grinder to grind out the uneven and misaligned errors. I vowed my thick head to never lay a brick without a form or string or something besides my crooked eyes and crooked hands. This whole thing has been humbling to say the least.
Sounds like you are ready for the big pour! Good luck with that. I used some silicone caulk in the corners of the forms to get a slightly rounded corner on the bottom edge and an edge tool to round the top. Sounds like you are cast in place, which is easier to me. I would not pour it exactly level. Give it some fall to front or back, whichever is the better in your setup. i just set the forms with the bubble on the edge of the center. it looks like the slope in your surrounding yard will drain towards the kitchen and i suspect the retaining wall channels that away for you. So probably the slope towards the front or weep holes in back. You could do some nice curves next to the oven and the end in your forms. Looking forward to the results. What are you using for base layer?