Texman Build

[Tscarborough]

Re: Texman Build

The jack arch would look good, so I would just use an angle.

[texman]

Re: Texman Build

You do not have enough buttressing for a jack arch to hold unless you use an angle iron under it.

I don't think it is possible to buttress here, is it? Is it possible to do an "eyebrow?" arch here or would you just use the angle iron and call it good. Would a straight soldier arch make any difference here? i think the segmental arch might work or does the lack of butressing prevent that too?
Thanks for you help!
Tracy

[Tscarborough]

Re: Texman Build

You do not have enough buttressing for a jack arch to hold unless you use an angle iron under it.

[texman]

Re: Texman Build

Can i lay a horizontal header without a lintel if it is not load bearing? My plan is to use soldiers across the opening tilted as shown in pic.
I am laying brick to veneer my base and am trying to span the wood storage opening. I could do a slight arch of maybe 2" w/o cutting the brick and more if needed.
Now for the latest mistake: use a form or guide for all masonry work. I laid the bricks in the pic and used a level to keep me vertical and horizontal. The 24" level is too long to fit the 23" opening. I didn't have the form in place to keep me straight on the interior edge. Sat down and looked at my work and saw that interior edge creeping together.
Then made the form and will GRIND my work to get the form in and hopefully save my work. When will i ever learn?
I will add one layer to chimney as shown and call that good i think. Just need to round out the flue opening to a smooth 7.5" to have some room.
Tracy

[texman]

Re: Texman Build

If it were me, I would just carry your slab curve up to hearth level with concrete.

Tom
I always liked your oven, maybe that's why i poured that curve. That is a good idea and i think would be fairly easy to do. Thanks!
Tracy

[Tscarborough]

Re: Texman Build

If it were me, I would just carry your slab curve up to hearth level with concrete.

[texman]

Re: Texman Build

I cleaned the crud out of the heat breaks. It is a complete heat break from the inner arch but some of the break is only 1/16" at the rear of the chimney and at the rear of the first brick in the outer arch. I used an old hacksaw blade the clean those contact areas and can get the blade through all of them. I know that the break is complete because the whole outer arch and chimney will move as one unit if pried on. i am thinking that the heat break is good? trying not to think and just rely in you guys.
I have my 3/8" square braid ceramic gasket material. Good 'ole NW iron works is sending the Kawool by covered wagon i think.
Trying to decide the finish of this thing so i can make final measurements and order that expensive triple-wall pipe, cut a hole in the ceiling and burn something. I finally cut the FB board off that was hanging out the front of the oven. I had a real mental block to cutting that, afraid i would regret it. But with it gone it makes it easier to visualize some options for finish. The old chicago brick looks really rough next to those pretty firebrick. I just set those there trying to get ideas. Looks like i need to use the grinder on that one brick in the outer arch that looks like a crooked tooth.
I have seen many builds that round off the edges of the inner arch. The reason being to smooth the airflow at the top and because the corners get chipped from use. is that recommended to flatten the corner of the inner arch and what about the back of the outer arch/flue transition?
I havn't cut a brick in three days, don't know what to do with myself.
Thanks as always

[Gulf]

Re: Texman Build

"The outer arch and inner have a contact of maybe an 1/8". I left the run over the inside arch because it was mortared in during my first failed attempt and i didn't see any harm in leaving it there and didn't want to risk removal."

With emphasis on "risk removal" I sure can't blame you for that .

"As far as a decorative arch, is that required or just for appearance?"

My quick answer to that would be for appearance. I was thinking that you were still looking for Old Chicago brick to match your house. My long answer which may or may not have much merit is this: An air space or insulated space between a firebrick and a face brick may help with those sudden changes in temperature that occur. I won't argue that point it is just an opinion. Also, I was just thinking that anything you put between you and that outer arch might make it a little more comfortable for you on those Texas summer afternoons .

"My corner build is about out of room"

I saw that in the pics and knew that if you did include a decorative arch that you might have to bring support up from the floor.

When you get a little rest and some of that brick dust out of your gullet you will come up with something. It will be great.

[deejayoh]

Re: Texman Build

yeah - kind of like that - though I was thinking you might want a little deeper landing.

[texman]

Re: Texman Build

Deejay
Thanks for the response. Not sure i get the slant. Are you talking about from the top of the slab and outward to landing or vice versa? rough pic
Tracy

[deejayoh]

Re: Texman Build

I don't think you need vcrete nor do I think it would work from a strength standpoint. But insulation is not really an issue at the front of the oven, especially given you have a heat break between your dome and vent landing.

What I am doing is pouring a concrete slab that butts up against my floor insulation and my landing bricks. I'll probably remove the bricks when I do the pour so that I can get a nice edge there, and them pop them back in - but I am using regular old concrete with some rebar for strength/crack inhibition.

I've thought about leaving room for a 1 1/4 inch piece of granite on top, but will probably go with a concrete finish given cost considerations.

On the rounded edge - I think it's probably a good thing in that you won't have as much visual weight to your landing. It kind of falls away underneath which will make it look better. You might even think about slanting the counter back toward the stand using a concrete form. Would look pretty cool if you had a 2-3" landing edge that slanted back toward your existing stand.

[texman]

Re: Texman Build

Tracy -
on your landing design - you are going to need to do something to raise that up to the level of the oven anyway - so why not just plan to extend the counter at that time? Do a concrete pour that gives you a squared off space in front of your oven?

Good idea deejay! Would vcrete work there? I am thinking not since it will have a small overhang. That 3.5" slab curve should hold the weight of concrete or i can square the vcrete of with finish brick maybe. I have a 5.5" space from top of slab to bottom of FB board there in front. Or 7.5" from slab to bottom of floor bricks. good idea. I had good intentions when i poured that curve. wonder what it was?
Tracy

[deejayoh]

Re: Texman Build

Tracy -
on your landing design - you are going to need to do something to raise that up to the level of the oven anyway - so why not just plan to extend the counter at that time? Do a concrete pour that gives you a squared off space in front of your oven?

[texman]

Re: Texman Build

Gulf
Thanks for taking the time to explain all this. I really appreciate it. I definitely needed a CG lesson on this. My first attempt at the vent transition was going from a 14x5 to 7x7. When I actually made the vent 14 x 3.5 and drew it out on paper with all the step to the rear, it looked like it needed to be supported by the dome and i didn't want to do that. I have the tall chimney and plan on using a ceiling support to spread the weight of the chimney pipe although i doubt it is that heavy. The outer arch and inner have a contact of maybe an 1/8". I left the run over the inside arch because it was mortared in during my first failed attempt and i didn't see any harm in leaving it there and didn't want to risk removal. My heat break is in tact except that contact of the 1/'8". That contact is not mortared and can be removed with the angle grinder thus leaving a complete heat break. I kinda like the support of the outer arch touching the dome, but it is not necessary and i don't know if that small a contact area would result in a great amount of heat loss especially if i cover the whole heat break in blanket and vcrete. I plan on grinding that and having a clean heat break, but i am so tired of grinding right now if you know what i mean.
As far as a decorative arch, is that required or just for appearance? My corner build is about out of room. Depending on how i finish my base, i could add enough depth to carry a decorative arch of brick weight to floor. But i am liking the look of the outer arch of firebrick exposed maybe. Decisions... I have wondered why i rounded that concrete in front of the oven landing. i guess i had a plan at the time, but don't remember what it was. I am really struggling with the finish of all of this now. The world will see all of this.
Thanks again and anyone feel free to offer advice on the finish.
Tracy

[Gulf]

Re: Texman Build

Wow Tex,
You have a perfectly balanced C.G. for your chimney transition. I do feel that you could have taken the entire step out to the back without going past it though. Do not break out the hammer or the diamond blade before you read on .
I have been working on an illustration of what I mean. Not to scale, but close.

When I mentioned the center of graivity I was meaning the weight of the flu as a whole. A row of brick and any weight + the weight placed on top of that is where the CG line can be drawn. It is roughly half the distance (front to back) in your case. You may remember that I recomended that you not exceed the face of your outside arch. The reason for that is so you would not have problems working the decorative brick in. You could have went another row or two higher with the design that I offered. That would have lessened the angle. I understand that would have cost some more brick. You did have another option open to split the difference on that, though. I had wondered what you were leaving that run over the inside arch for. I thought that you had a plan for it. With a 2" piece of CalSil or a vcrete slab it could have been used to transfer some weight to your inside arch and keep your heatbreak concistent.
Unless there is something there that I don't see, your outside arch is touching that run where some heat loss can happen, and it really serves no real purpose. I should have questioned that but, again maybe there is something there there that I did not see.
You still have about 80% of the heatbreak intact. That is better than most. As for as the step out over the face of the outside arch goes, (unless you have another idea for this) I think that you can take it out with the face brick. That would mean knotching simular to what I did.

To take that a little further. If you will encase that transition in vcrete or other insulation you will lesson the heat loss "from it" which will help lesson the heat loss from the inside arch "to it". The reason I recomend vcrete is because it can also help support the transition.
Other than that, I think that you did a heck of a great job on the brick work and I am sure that it will perform fine. If you don't preheat your flu before lighting the fire in the oven, don't blame it on the flu .
4 blades. I am setting dead in the water right now because my first HF blade quit cutting. Should be here wednesday.