42" build in Central Texas

[stonecutter]

Re: 42" build in Central Texas

Wont be wasted if you have an insulated door. Or block it up with left over insulation and brick....

[GarnerAC]

Re: 42" build in Central Texas

You need flame licking the dome, it is the hottest part of the fire, and charcoal is self-insulating to a certain extent (ash). To recharge the floor under heavy use, you rake coals over the floor for a few minutes only, to prevent the ash insulation effect. If you could literally fill the dome with charcoal it would probably work fine to charge the oven, but lacking that, plan on 10 or 12 hours to do what chopped wood does in an hour or 2.

yeah I guess i see what you are saying, i just need to get this thing fired up and Im sure it will all make sense. Tom, I hope you can come by the house at some point and give it the stamp of approval!
Im cooking for the guys friday afternoon and unfortunately gone all day Saturday (race day!) so all that heat energy will get wasted. I was really hoping to cook something else. Maybe there will be enough heat left on Sunday for a Yardbird

[Tscarborough]

Re: 42" build in Central Texas

You need flame licking the dome, it is the hottest part of the fire, and charcoal is self-insulating to a certain extent (ash). To recharge the floor under heavy use, you rake coals over the floor for a few minutes only, to prevent the ash insulation effect. If you could literally fill the dome with charcoal it would probably work fine to charge the oven, but lacking that, plan on 10 or 12 hours to do what chopped wood does in an hour or 2.

[GarnerAC]

Re: 42" build in Central Texas

It is used to cure, but does not provide enough heat to saturate the oven for cooking. Keep in mind that that dollar value is for the dome only, nothing else around it.

OK, so no top insulation only under floor insulation if no Perlcrete. Maybe 500-600 in materials.
So is it too hot or not hot enough? This stuff burns pretty hot in my BGE, I can cook fast Pizzas at 800.
Wood eventually turns to coal so how could it damage it any more that your firewood eventually transformed into lump charcoal?

BTW, LUMP Charcoal, not Briquettes

[boerwarrior]

Re: 42" build in Central Texas

Hi Garner,

lots of debate on this forum (and others!) on the charcoal versus wood discussion. If I can try and summarize it for you: the case against charcoal is that the localized temperatures are far higher than they are for wood, and that eventually these very high temperatures will start to deteriorate even high quality firebrick.

But, as is always the case, there are arguments on both sides!

I have only ever used wood in my oven so I do not have any first hand experience.

[Tscarborough]

Re: 42" build in Central Texas

It is used to cure, but does not provide enough heat to saturate the oven for cooking. Keep in mind that that dollar value is for the dome only, nothing else around it.

[GarnerAC]

Re: 42" build in Central Texas

The engine (oven) on your stand and no fenestration about $3000.00 here in Central Texas.

Edit: By "your stand", I mean not included in the scope of the oven, not YOUR particular stand.

$3000 sounds fair maybe even low. I built my oven (dome only) in about 18 days working off and on trying to figure out a new rhythm with angles and bevels, building wood arch supports and templates and aquiring all tools and materials. I can see a "Craftsman" and helper showing up with the proper items and knocking it out in 3-5 days. $1000 in materials $2000 labor/profit/overhead and $300 to Washington. Hope someone is out there making it work.

Topic change,,,,
Lump Charcoal. I use alot of this stuff in my Green Eggs and in one of my smokers. To my thinking this would work great in my WFO. I can see myself setting a bag in the left side of my oven and lighting the bag with my BIG propane burner and letting it go. Why do I never read about anyone using Lump? I bought 10 bags of Royal Oak at WalMart today for $6 bag.

[GarnerAC]

Re: 42" build in Central Texas

The engine (oven) on your stand and no fenestration about $3000.00 here in Central Texas.

Edit: By "your stand", I mean not included in the scope of the oven, not YOUR particular stand.

Just to save everybody the trouble: Fenestration

[Tscarborough]

Re: 42" build in Central Texas

The engine (oven) on your stand and no fenestration about $3000.00 here in Central Texas.

Edit: By "your stand", I mean not included in the scope of the oven, not YOUR particular stand.

[stonecutter]

Re: 42" build in Central Texas

Im having a hard time finding a roofer that is willing to do a job this small. We are booming down here in the Red state of Texas and everyone is busy. I realize copper is high but didnt expect over 2500. Like you said Craftsmanship costs money as it should.

It is a tad on the high side I would say, the number may have been inflated if everybody is busy. A small job takes the same amount of time to set up, and so a lot of times they can cost you money if you are jamming with regular projects.

That said, I have no idea what is involved in the bid so it's all speculation.

[stonecutter]

Re: 42" build in Central Texas

Im having a hard time finding a roofer that is willing to do a job this small. We are booming down here in the Red state of Texas and everyone is busy. I realize copper is high but didnt expect over 2500. Like you said Craftsmanship costs money as it should. Would like to find a gray slate tile. Found some on Craigslist but the guy hasnt returned my call. Need 65 pieces. Not sure what color to do the metal trim. Im getting Eldorado Brick Veneer from Tom's store HERE

I like that brick veneer, it looks like early American hand-mades I used to see in New England.

Slate is always a great choice too, if you can get reclaimed even better. What kind of metal trim are you doing? Fascia? Dripedge? They didn't have that in ancient Rome you know.

[GarnerAC]

Re: 42" build in Central Texas

Finish it first, I'll have an idea then.

Seriously, I have only a vague idea. It would depend on a bunch of things, starting with the Mason himself. I'll say more than a gas grill to be safe.

That price seems reasonable...I'm not shocked at all. What about the clay tile? I think that works more in line with your vision than a copper roof anyway.

Im having a hard time finding a roofer that is willing to do a job this small. We are booming down here in the Red state of Texas and everyone is busy. I realize copper is high but didnt expect over 2500. Like you said Craftsmanship costs money as it should. Would like to find a gray slate tile. Found some on Craigslist but the guy hasnt returned my call. Need 65 pieces. Not sure what color to do the metal trim. Im getting Eldorado Brick Veneer from Tom's store HERE

[stonecutter]

Re: 42" build in Central Texas

Well said Stoner. What do you think it would it cost a retail customer to have one similar to mine built?

BTW, I got a bid back today to do a Copper roof and facia and get ready, sit down, have a drink,,,,,,, $4000.00

Finish it first, I'll have an idea then.

Seriously, I have only a vague idea. It would depend on a bunch of things, starting with the Mason himself. I'll say more than a gas grill to be safe.

That price seems reasonable...I'm not shocked at all. What about the clay tile? I think that works more in line with your vision than a copper roof anyway.

[GarnerAC]

Re: 42" build in Central Texas

Well said Stoner. What do you think it would it cost a retail customer to have one similar to mine built?

BTW, I got a bid back today to do a Copper roof and facia and get ready, sit down, have a drink,,,,,,, $4000.00

[stonecutter]

Re: 42" build in Central Texas

Craftsmanship is still alive of course but harder to find these days. So many companies in all different trades start out trying to do craftsmanship type work but fail to find and keep Crafts-MEN. I have no doubt that its true in Italy.

As a whole, I agree with your point about the lack of craftsmanship. However, the driving force behind modern construction, especially with trades like Masonry, is SPEED & COST..... the proper time needed to train a true craftsman isn't there anymore(for the most part). Also, craftsmanship has all but lost its value on a large scale....to clients, to builders, to anyone looking to get more for less. Because valuing real craftsmanship comes at a cost, and it's worth is seen by precious few. I am speaking from my own personal experience, and for many,many others I have spoken to over the years.

.....I was just a little surprised to see their building methods werent as impressive (to me) as what Ive seen here done by some of you guys who havent done anything like this before.......

Until the age of internet, the information needed to build ovens or other masonry structures could only be learned by apprenticing for an accomplished Journeyman or Master Mason and maybe a few books. Nowadays, anyone with aptitude can get information they need to build a good, functional oven, through media and forums like these, which offer the added benefit of mutual encouragement from people that have done it before, sprinkled in with a couple that do it professionally. IMO, The projects on this site are made more impressive because most have never had any training with masonry...it really cool to see.

But, the main between commercial oven builders and hobby builders is simple, and it has been pointed out.....

The Italian builders are production builders, , the ovens and the methods they use work fine, but they are not built to the same standard of anyone here who builds their own oven..........

There is NO WAY a commercial project (or most residential ones for that matter) would accept that it took several months to build an oven. That fact necessitates speed, and you must sacrifice certain building techniques to get that speed....tight angled cutting on every brick for example. But, most of the commercial oven builders ( ones that are considered artisan builders) understand what it takes to build a lasting oven. It is well known that these ovens are getting more use in a month than a lot of builds get in a year or two. So, relatively, there ARE ovens built with craftsmanship in a commercial setting. You see, comparing builders of those commercial ovens to someone that built an oven recreationally, is apples and oranges, because the circumstances under which they are constructed are completely different.

Having said that, I too (commenting on another forum) mentioned how rough the brickwork was in some of the commercial domes I have seen. I do understand the why cutting a million angles on a 60" oven isn't practical, and why they build the way they build. I have an idealistic approach to my own work, that being functional AND highly aesthetic...it is not always practical though, and that is mainly because of the project budget. The mark of experience and craftsmanship is knowing when, how, and why something works or doesn't, and applying best practice whenever possible on any given part of a project.