2024 Neapolitan oven build

[daidensacha]

Coming out of hibernation

I checked my weather app this morning and was pleasantly surprised to see Friday it will be 11C, Ok, still -1C at night, but this next week we will have one day with 14C. So I’m planning this week to make the most of the warmer days to lay my granite bench top, which I picked up a few weeks ago. At 120 kg, 2200 x 630 x 30mm, it’s a hand full, but really beautiful. It’s called Shivakashi, with a range of colors so I can have flour, tomato, salami pieces on the top and it won’t be out of place .



Yesterday I picked up a beautiful piece of Ash that will be mounted on the recycled brick wall at the back of the granite pizza preparation worktop. I’ll go to the local mill on Friday to put it through the planer to finish the top and bottom. I’ll remove the bark and leave natural sides.



Lastly, I have to finish the last layer of render on the dome so I can fit the Ash slab which will fit flush up against the dome, and paint the whole stand and oven to finish it off. Been sitting on my hands all winter waiting for the right conditions to return so I can get back into it. Yayyy!



Pizza, rain, hail, or snow.

It might have been winter, but it didn’t stop me cooking. On average we cooked once a week, and I’ve been experimenting with my pizza dough. Bigga, Poolish, Bigga and Poolish, 100% preferment, 50, 60, 70% pre-ferment, room temp fermentation, fridge fermentation, 36 hour fermentation, 80 hour fermentation. I haven’t had any failures yet, only to say by my assessment degrees of success rated from 6-9 out of 10.

My favorite to date, 36 hour fermented 100 % bigga dough at 65% hydration. My goal has been to have a nice crunchy puffy cornicione full of air with moist soft crumb. I get this with a Bigga. WIth Poolish I get the looks, taste, but the crunch doesn’t last like it does with the Bigga.

On the functional side of working with the oven, due to the high humidity here my wood stacked and stored under the terrace absorbed moisture, and I noticed it sizzling as it was burning. That made it work to get the fire going, and to keep it going to get the oven up to temp. I took to stacking my oven full of wood 2-3 days after baking when the temp dropped to 200-250C. Come my next baking day, when I take the wood out it is totally dry and burns easily and fast. Making it super easy to get the oven up to temp.

It took me a while to catch on, but I finally got it, that the coals saturate the dome with heat more effectively than the fire. Initially before i clicked, I was focussing on building a huge fire to heat the dome, but letting the wood burn down to a pile of red hot coals leaves my dome at the perfect temperature with the dome at 500C, floor at 430C. That drops a bit when I start cooking, but my pizzas come out much nicer than if I cook at higher temps. Especially if the floor is hotter, I find my dough sticks to the floor. I haven’t quite worked out if that has relationship to the dough hydration, state of fermentation, or is simply the heat. Generally I think it happens less when the dough is at 65% hydration, and the oven floor is at 430C or less.

Anyway, this bear is coming out of hibernation and happy to share updates as spring approaches.

[daidensacha]

Giovanni Rossi

Some conversions just forms own sake, and those who don‘t live in USA.
460F/ 238C
15lb/ 6.8kg
2 hours

The photos of your turkey look amazing. I‘m impressed your turkey cooked in such a short time given its size.

I want a nice crispy skin on my duck. I picked it up yesterday by the way, and its 11.46lb/ 5.2kg. The lady at the farm said the breasts are really thick, so to cook it 4 to 4.5 hours so the meat is falling off the bone. I can‘t imagine doing having it in the oven for that long, so I‘ll just have to check. Turkey has a good size breast, so if yours was done in 2 hours, i can see the duck being done in around a similar time. I‘ll wait for a special offer on the Meater XL Pro and get that this year, so I can monitor meat via the wireless thermometer.

[Giovanni Rossi]

daidensacha If you care to check it out, I've tried to document in my build thread as much as I can our use of retained heat. The last post is our second time doing a turkey. It was about 15 pounds.

[daidensacha]

I agree "lots of uses". The oven's are fun to experiment with temps on the decline. The third or fourth day (250-275F) can be great for low and slow ribs or brisket. I even made yogurt once at around 110F. I now use my oven a lot for for drying or roasting herbs with the heat left over from a food cook

I hadn‘t thought of using it to dry herbs, that’s a great idea.

[daidensacha]

Yes, that is the beauty of the WFOs, pizza first night, bread the second day AM and roast second day PM. Some builders the third day or so to dry out green wood, dry herbs, make jerky etc. Gulf filters out the ash and saves the lump charcoal. So lots of uses.

Theres such a jump from intellectually understanding, to experiencing. I totally underestimated the power of the oven, its beyond what I could have imagined. I‘ve been making the most of the retained heat day 2 and 3 to cook bread and meat. It‘s just amazing how efficient it is. I get a more even heat in the pizza oven than I get in out kitchen oven.

Whilst my Ash hardwood is seasoned and dry, with the humidity here the wood holds some moisture. It burns but takes a little to get going. To get around this, I‘ve been loading wood for my next fire in the oven once the temp drops to 200C, and it makes a huge difference. When I light my fire, within 2 minutes it a raging blaze and the pre-heated and dried pieces of wood that I add to the fire burn instantly. It’s shortened my heating time for the oven considerably.

What surprises me is when I come to clean out the ash, there is no coals and for all the wood I burn, only 2 pans of ash come out. It’s super efficient. I‘ve been adding the ash to my blueberry bush beds.

Did my biga today for the 100% biga dough I will make tomorrow for my wife’s birthday party. I‘m budgeting on making 24 pizzas. I‘ve been baking 2-3 times a week just to get to know the oven, and learn through experience. Been baking 4-6 pizzas per bake. Finished my first 10kg bag of 00 flour making my biga today, so that’s about 60 pizzas experience. It’s been worth it, feeling ready to hit it tomorrow with a level of confidence.

[Gulf]

I agree "lots of uses". The oven's are fun to experiment with temps on the decline. The third or fourth day (250-275F) can be great for low and slow ribs or brisket. I even made yogurt once at around 110F. I now use my oven a lot for for drying or roasting herbs with the heat left over from a food cook

[UtahBeehiver]

Yes, that is the beauty of the WFOs, pizza first night, bread the second day AM and roast second day PM. Some builders the third day or so to dry out green wood, dry herbs, make jerky etc. Gulf filters out the ash and saves the lump charcoal. So lots of uses.

[daidensacha]

We frequently cook chickens and on Thanksgiving we cook a turkey or two. Usually fire the oven the night before either for pizza or just to get it saturated with heat (clear dome plus an hour or so). Chickens are usually done in 45 minutes to an hour. Usually like the temp around 450F. We don't even cover them - when we pull the door plug the steam just rolls out. It's a pretty forgiving process as we have overcooked our birds on occasion and they are still moist.

So your using your ovens retained heat to bake too, that’s nice to hear.

I pick up my duck/ducks today, 2 x 3kg or one big one. I‘m curious how long your turkeys get on in the oven. How long did they take to cook, and at what temp do you put them in the oven? From my experience in Aus, where we always had Turkey for xmas, we always had to be careful not to dry it out.

My I did a 3 kg duck last year in my grill on the rotisserie at 190C. I had the infra red bar a little hot so it was slightly overdone, but still juicy and and really yummy.

I‘ve cooked ribs in the oven and the second lot i baked were the best I tasted in my life. Yet to do a chicken. I discovered the other day that the farm where we buy our ducks also sell freshly slaughtered chickens. I‘m not keen on the frozen supermarket ones here in Germany, they look really scrawny compared to what I used to buy in Australia.

[JRPizza]

We frequently cook chickens and on Thanksgiving we cook a turkey or two. Usually fire the oven the night before either for pizza or just to get it saturated with heat (clear dome plus an hour or so). Chickens are usually done in 45 minutes to an hour. Usually like the temp around 450F. We don't even cover them - when we pull the door plug the steam just rolls out. It's a pretty forgiving process as we have overcooked our birds on occasion and they are still moist.

[daidensacha]

david s I will try your recipe with chicken. We are getting 6 kg of duck, 1 big or 2 small, I‘m leaning towards 2 x 3kg as I think it will taste better. I will let you know how it gets on.

Last year I did the duck on the rotisserie in my grill, and it was really good. I‘m looking forward to seeing how it comes out of the Pizza oven.

[david s]

Roasting duck using retained heat, or with coals

I wonder if someone with experience can share some advise. I‘m roasting our 2 Xmas ducks in the oven on 24th, and could use some tips.

On 23rd we are having a pizza party, and I had planned on closing the oven up overnight so the retained heat temp next day will be around 360C. I was planning on using the retained heat to cook the ducks, in hotel pans (530 x 325 x 90mm). I’ll cover the ducks with foil to retain moisture and protect them a bit from burning. Two pans with 2 cold ducks in a lot of mass, which will suck a lot of heat in the oven initially, so starting at 360C, I am banking on the temp dropping a fair bit, and I can measure the internal temp with a probe thermometer at hour intervals.

An alternate plan would be to leave the door ajar overnight, in which case the temp the next day is 220C. I can light a fire to get some coals in the oven, and let it burn down to cooking temp before putting ducks in and roasting with coals at the sides of the oven.

Has anyone cooked large birds or pieces of meat in the oven?

I quite often roast chickens in my oven. but also roast other meats using the same technique. Usually one bird at a time but sometimes 2.
I couldn't see much point in taking the oven up to pizza temperature to roast a chicken at 200C. It takes a lot of time, firing up then waiting for the temperature to drop to roasting range, plus it goes through a lot more fuel. Also the floor gets way too hot which makes any meat juices burn in the roasting pan. (Don't use a teflon coated pan for this reason).

So I've developed this technique which works pretty well for me and my oven.All ovens are a bit different so experimentation is the key.

I fire the oven for one hour from lighting the match. This takes my oven up to around 250C, the carbon is burning off the crown at this point (300C), but the sides are still black.
With the chicken(s) sitting on a rack in the roasting pan that has some herbs and 1/2 cup of water 1/2 cup of wine akso sitting on the bottom of the tray. This takes the sting out of the floor. eliminating any buring in the pan whilst catching meat juices. The sides of the roasting pan ensure no coals or ash get in the pan.
I wait for the flame to die, push the coals back and to the sides then slide in the roasting pan and fit the door. In my oven this results in extinguishing the fire, leaving unburnt coals because of the lack of oxygen. If you want a smoky flavour place the pan just before the flame dies or throw half a handful of smoking chips onto the coals just befor placing the pan in the oven. It is very easy to overdo the smoky flavour so hold back on this.
I usually turn the bird over after 15 mins, but beware, opening the oven door releases a lot of hot air so don't do this frequently or you'll lose too much heat. At around the 3/4 point of the roast the smell is really nice and I use this as a roasting time indicator, I use a simple probe thermometer to test the internal temperature, but also sometimes use a fancy wireless probe (Meater) that talks to my phone. By the time the bird(s) are ready, around 1.5 to 2 hrs the temp is down to about 160C
Remove the herbs and the pan has exactly the right amount of liquid and caramelization from the wine, meat juice and smokiness to make the best gravy, finished on the stovetop, that you can imagine. The fluid in the pan ensures a steamy oven atmosphere so if you want crispy roast potatos do them separately in your kitchen oven. I usually accompany the roasted birds with pumpkin and onion. In my smallnove I'd usually use about the same weight in wood as the bird(s) vegetables and pan.

[daidensacha]

Roasting duck using retained heat, or with coals

I wonder if someone with experience can share some advise. I‘m roasting our 2 Xmas ducks in the oven on 24th, and could use some tips.

On 23rd we are having a pizza party, and I had planned on closing the oven up overnight so the retained heat temp next day will be around 360C. I was planning on using the retained heat to cook the ducks, in hotel pans (530 x 325 x 90mm). I’ll cover the ducks with foil to retain moisture and protect them a bit from burning. Two pans with 2 cold ducks in a lot of mass, which will suck a lot of heat in the oven initially, so starting at 360C, I am banking on the temp dropping a fair bit, and I can measure the internal temp with a probe thermometer at hour intervals.

An alternate plan would be to leave the door ajar overnight, in which case the temp the next day is 220C. I can light a fire to get some coals in the oven, and let it burn down to cooking temp before putting ducks in and roasting with coals at the sides of the oven.

Has anyone cooked large birds or pieces of meat in the oven?

[daidensacha]

Giovanni Rossi You know, growing up in Aus vegemite is in my blood, and I love the saltiness of it. When I was around 40 or so, somehow I added mashed banana on my vegemite toast one day, and discovered how good they complimented each other. The salt and the sweet, on my palette anyway hits the spot.

I‘m not quite there to let people make their own pizzas yet, as I‘m developing my relationship with the oven, and hours of experience is the only thing that will give me the understanding of it. Some day soon though, it will get to that. Still early days. I am waiting on my granit top for the work benchtop, and will put a nice slice of oak on the brick wall at the back of the work bench, as a bar. Ordered some containers for my ingredients, which will enable me to organise it a bit more. Lastly, plan on building cupboards under my work bench, one side for storing my cooking trays, pots and pans, and the other side for trays of pizza dough balls.

I plan on getting a fridge for the terrace, to keep the pizza ingredients, and to have extra space to refrigerate my dough for longer proofs. For now though, with limited space, I‘m working with room temp proofs, and its going good.

I love baking, and have baked a lot of bread with sourdough and poolish, but my favorite is biga these days. Using biga in the pizza dough gives it a really nice rise, and crust.

The biga I make at 50% hydration, which confused me in the beginning because I was used to working with high hydration doughs. The biga is really dry, and scraggly, but over 24 hours it settles and comes together nicely. When I put it in my container it loose, it measures at the 4PT mark, then slowly compacts down to about half of that, then rises 24 hours to double in size again this time compacted.



Yesterday I had 2 x 280g balls left over, so i let them proof another 24 hours and today I combined them and put them in a proofing basket. Baked it in the oven with the retained heat from last nights pizza bake.



This bread from the left over pizza balls, had 24 hour biga proofing, with a further 30 hour dough proofing all at room temp before baking. Soft, moist and fluffy crumb, with really tasty crust.

Just to add, I believe, although I haven‘t yet done it, that the biga dough balls can also be kept in the fridge for up to 4-5 days. I‘ll give it a go when I have more fridge space. We have a birthday pizza party on Monday 23rd, for about 27 people, so our fridge and freezer space is pretty full right now.

24th, am cooking 2 ducks in the pizza oven for xmas dinner. Then looking forward to a breather, as I‘ve been baking 2-3 times a week just. to get hours of experience under my belt for this Xmas cooking. I feel ready now, bring it on.

[Giovanni Rossi]

I‘ve got to experiment with the pesto, and see how to best incorporate the mango...

I've never been a big fan of sweet on pizza, though my palate is expanding in my old age. I have enjoyed a drizzle of balsamic glaze on a savory pie now and again. My daughter is the pizzaiola during our parties while I bake and she makes a cheesy pesto pie that seems to be a fan favorite: Light tomato sauce, light shredded cheese blend (mozz, jack, prov), light shredded cheddar, dollops of pesto, parmigiano reggiano, red pepper flakes and EVOO.

I will make just about any combo a guest wants, but one local favorite that will never see the inside of my oven is a buffalo chicken pie!

Enjoying your info on using a biga for pizza. I use various pre-ferments for most of my breads, but have never done so for pizza. That would certainly save fridge space. I typically do a bulk room temp fermentation then form my balls and do a 2-3 day cold ferment. That way I just pull the balls out pre-bake for a period of time that varies by the temp on party day. This process allows pulling the dough boxes out one at a time and simplifies the prep process day of.

[daidensacha]

Biga Pizza Dough

As I mentioned previously, I made up a spreadsheet to allow me to refine my biga dough easily. Being winter, I‘m currently going with 100% biga, proofing for 24 hours at room temp as I have limited space in my fridge. I then add the water and salt to bring it to 65% hydration, which I have found bakes better in my oven than dough with 70% hydration.

Today I finally found the exact amount of active dry yeast that works for my schedule so it is perfectly risen at the time I want to bake. Initially when I reduced the hydration to 65%, my dough was not quite right and required a little more work to stretch out the dough when making my pizzas. Waiting for the balls to be ready makes a world of difference, as the dough becomes softer and more pliable. Much easier to shape, and still strong enough that they don’t break. The challenge has been to do this at room temperature 20C, without refrigerating, and having it ready at the time I want to bake. As we come out of winter and into warmer weather, i‘ll start to reduce the percentage of biga to slow down the rising process, again so it can be at room temp.

I‘m making my balls 280g, and in the calculation for the dough I add 10g per ball to ensure I have enough to make my 280g balls. Somehow in the process of making the dough, possibly evaporation, some weight is lost.

What I like with my spreadsheet is that I can enter the amount of pizzas I want, and it automatically gives me the recipe calculated from the bakers percentages. I can easily change the percentage of biga in the recipe, also the percentage of yeast, and hydration of the biga and or final dough. I also added a schedule calculator, which outlines my schedule based on the time I enter that I want to bake, and the specific processing times making the dough.