Pizza History in the Hammer Continues

[JRPizza]

Hi Baza, just caught up on your build thread - nice work. I was sort of AWOL from the forum this summer with painting and restoring our old house and lost track of many of the builds. Like you I got a late(ish) start and had to suspend work for the winter after I closed out my dome. I used the down time to design my vent and chimney and cut most of remaining bricks so it was time well spent. Was able to get on it in the spring and was cooking in the oven by the start of summer! Looking forward to seeing you finish and for any recipes your father-in-law can share with us!

[modified9v]

Wow, just got caught up on your build. It sure brought back memories. Some good, some bad. Looking forward seeing the progress from here on. Well done so far.

[Baza]

JRPizza great to hear from you and thank you for the encouragements - It has been AGES since I have returned to this forum - out of hibernation and chomping to get going!!
modified9v Thanks for the kind words! Yes- the heart sinks and rises in this process indeed!

Just uncovered her and she weathered this Canadian winter well - the tent over it didn't - so got another and did a once over ... seems fine!!
Going to clean and mortar some gaps inside and have drawn up rudimentary plans for the Arch Gallery - having read through JR's and Mikie's builds (again) I see the potential for a serpentine flue - but am nervous given my skills - I like the compromise to a minimalist base with mortared in plate you did Mikie - the serpentine may be a bit beyond me.
mongota has a similar (somewhat simple if not REALLY inventive) approach to screwing in the base and using sealant to allow for expansion ..

Jury out for this kid for now

Decided NOT to flare the opening - just want to get the damn thing done and enclosed!
The loss of manouverability side to side was so nominal as not to warrant the extra cutting and headaches of doing one.

So - hoping for a break in the weather to start the process - will likely be an arch informed by Mongota and Mikie ... or it will all go to hell and I'll put something together that I haven't even though of yet! HA!

Looking forward to being back at this and joining you in the feeling of your first fire, first pie.

Can't wait! 2021 needs a bit of joy!!
~Baza

[modified9v]

You probably saw my struggle with the serpentine flu I did, but in the end I had an “Aha moment” and it really wasn’t that bad. I like the way it drafts once the Dutra vent gets up to temp. I love looking up into that chamber even still. Love showing it off to guests... it’s a conversation piece for sure.

[Baza]

Hello Forno Friends!

I hope everyone is doing well - staying safe and cooking like fiends!!
Been great opening up the build from the winter - did some interior cleaning (yep, wiggled in, sanded, ground and filled some mortar gaps), did some measuring and drafting and eager to start the Vent area and the enclosure ..

A couple of questions:

1. I have a segmented entrance arch (straight sides). Early builds like this (eg. Dino's) did NOT have buttressing, yet recent forum searches suggest one cannot live with out it. I don't plan on having a large assembly to provide a base for the chimney (it will be much like Russell's and Mongo's and others') so there's weight - but not 4 storey's high! QUESTION: do I NEED to buttress this arch or no? If so, should the buttressing follow the line of curve from the arch and take it to the hearth floor?
2. Gauge of steel for frame is a mild debate. Some say 24-26 gauge is ok. But the frame has to hold both concrete board AND stone veneer. I read that 16-20 gauge is more the thickness for such a plan. QUESTION: should I be using something in the 16-20 range? Follow up - if in the 16-20 range, can it be cut by snips - or will I need a blade for my saw?

Thank you everyone - take care
Barry

[modified9v]

Hey Barry, I think you’d be happier with the heavier gauge unless you need to do some brake work... you will need a blade... but they aren’t that bad.

[Baza]

Hey Barry, I think you’d be happier with the heavier gauge unless you need to do some brake work... you will need a blade... but they aren’t that bad.

Fantastic 9v!
Thank you so much - I've started sourcing the stronger gauge.
The minus temps here are killing my efforts - hoping for warmer (above freezing temps) this weekend to GET GOING!
Barry

[mongota]

JRPizza great to hear from you and thank you for the encouragements - It has been AGES since I have returned to this forum - out of hibernation and chomping to get going!!
modified9v Thanks for the kind words! Yes- the heart sinks and rises in this process indeed!

Just uncovered her and she weathered this Canadian winter well - the tent over it didn't - so got another and did a once over ... seems fine!!
Going to clean and mortar some gaps inside and have drawn up rudimentary plans for the Arch Gallery - having read through JR's and Mikie's builds (again) I see the potential for a serpentine flue - but am nervous given my skills - I like the compromise to a minimalist base with mortared in plate you did Mikie - the serpentine may be a bit beyond me.
mongota has a similar (somewhat simple if not REALLY inventive) approach to screwing in the base and using sealant to allow for expansion ..

Jury out for this kid for now

Decided NOT to flare the opening - just want to get the damn thing done and enclosed!
The loss of manouverability side to side was so nominal as not to warrant the extra cutting and headaches of doing one.

So - hoping for a break in the weather to start the process - will likely be an arch informed by Mongota and Mikie ... or it will all go to hell and I'll put something together that I haven't even though of yet! HA!

Looking forward to being back at this and joining you in the feeling of your first fire, first pie.

Can't wait! 2021 needs a bit of joy!!
~Baza

Spring is officially here, but it seems like winter is still in the air, yah?

If I did a segmented arch, I would have buttressed. It does depend on your finishing touches. I tried to do a fairly lightweight chimney transition and chimney above the landing arch to minimize the weight that the arch has to carry. But in the end, if you're unsure...perhaps the buttress would be smart? I mean, the last thing you want is a failed structure.

Flared opening? I hear you. My initial design incorporated one, I nixed it in my final design. I don't miss it at all. If my landing was significantly deeper than 1-1/2 bricks, a flare could certainly be advantageous. But I've had no troubles tending the fire, cleaning the oven, or cooking with my straight entry.

[Baza]

Spring is officially here, but it seems like winter is still in the air, yah?

If I did a segmented arch, I would have buttressed. It does depend on your finishing touches. I tried to do a fairly lightweight chimney transition and chimney above the landing arch to minimize the weight that the arch has to carry. But in the end, if you're unsure...perhaps the buttress would be smart? I mean, the last thing you want is a failed structure.

Flared opening? I hear you. My initial design incorporated one, I nixed it in my final design. I don't miss it at all. If my landing was significantly deeper than 1-1/2 bricks, a flare could certainly be advantageous. But I've had no troubles tending the fire, cleaning the oven, or cooking with my straight entry.

mongota ... clarity as always - Thank you!
Yes - snow still melting after a dump on Wednesday and minus A LOT temps! sigh ... hoping for a better today!

Ok - makes sense - I don't plan on a heavy base structure for the chimney either - but I hear you on the sleep-at-night buttressing!
I will do it - should be easy enough to hide given I'm enclosing the oven.
And, yeah, feeling good about the decision to nix the flare - I will use synonyms here and increase the FLAIR on the cooking IN the oven!!

Grateful
Barry

[CapePizza]

Hello Barry! I've been following your recent posts. Just wanted to say hello, welcome back from the winter hiatus and good luck with finishing up your oven.......
Regarding the flared entrance, as you may remember, I did build my entrance with one. Now that I've been using my oven I can say it's nice to have, I like the way it looks......
but if my oven did not have the flared entrance, I wouldn't miss it. I found it a bit challenging to build and never would have completed it without having figured it out in the CAD layout first to help
guide me. I don't think you will miss having a flared entrance. Good luck with the rest of your build. Welcome warm weather.......

[Baza]

CapePizza
Hey! Thanks John ! Good to read.
After building the form for the arch and starting to line up the bricks for a dry-run and cut some templates - I can see how this part can become the head-scratcher it is for many builders.
Good to know that the flare is of marginal difference to the operation of the oven ... but let us not diminish the brilliant work you did!!

With the heat break, I'm a bit tense ... I've used a caulk-style liquid mortar to hold the ceramic rope - I guess I am worried that it will crack as the expansion/contraction process unfolds - but it doesn't matter as it is nothing structural and it won't actually crack the brick in that process ... will it?
I would use a silicone to put around the rope - but I can't find one with a higher temp max than 650 degrees ... begging the question: does the face of the inner arch get that hot anyway? Is it even an issue. If not - I would rather use the more flexible red silicone than the black (really high-temp) liquid mortar.

Oh - and if anyone is reading ... curious about the distance between the two structures: the inner arch and the separate outer arch assembly (if you did a heat break design)?
Just enough to squeeze the ceramic rope in there and caulk closed? Or closer? Too close wastes the point?

Anyway - you know, I wish I could CONTRIBUTE to the learning on this forum more than bleed answers from it!!

sigh - be well Forno Friends!!
Barry

[CapePizza]

Barry, fwiw, I filled the gap created for the heat break with perlcrete mix. Did not use caulk. I remember making the gap around 3/8 inch and stuffing the gap with 1/2 inch ceramic rope. Forced the rope into the gap with a steel bar and hammer. see attached. Worked well.
John

[Baza]

Barry, fwiw, I filled the gap created for the heat break with perlcrete mix. Did not use caulk. I remember making the gap around 3/8 inch and stuffing the gap with 1/2 inch ceramic rope. Forced the rope into the gap with a steel bar and hammer. see attached. Worked well.
John

CapePizza - yes! I saw that and it looked great! Gave me a better sense of the gap for sure!
My wondering was around the separate structure piece given the oven itself expands/moves and if the vent structure was "tied" with percrete or some other means to it - it would impact the vent structure.
You say you don't see an appreciable issue: either in the pains of movement OR the loss of heat (given it is an insulated mortar)

Ok - something to think about ... I'm still keen on making the two structures separate - but my skills may collapse in a mess (as has been the case!) and I'll have to think of something altogether new!

Thank you for sharing John!
Barry

[CapePizza]

I don't see the vent structure moving. The perlcrete that's "stuffed" into the gap may (or may not) crack, or otherwise deteriorate somewhat over time, but I haven't noticed anything like that so far.
I pushed the rope in far enough so it was kind of centered in the vent structure. Then filled the gap, on the inside of the vent and the outside of the vent with the perlcrete mix.

[Baza]

Hello Forno Friends!

Been a while and finally got some space and time to work on the vent arch
Got some RTV instead of the caulk-mortar (black stuff) and finished surrounding the oven arch for the heat break. Laid the vertical sides and worked out the lip of the structure.mongota should see significant similarities here! Thanks mate!

Happy to be building again!
Barry